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Kyle Harris

Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« on: February 11, 2006, 02:41:02 PM »
What courses feature a duet of TOUGH 9th/18th holes?

My nomination is Philadelphia Cricket Club. The 9th is a superlative uphill par 4 with great center line hazards and the railroad bank hard right. Hitting a long iron approach into a great green site is tough enough, but with a green with such contour, you have to use the slope to feed your ball to the hole location.

The 18th is a brilliantly routed downhill sweeping dogleg left, with an approach to large green that can be anywhere from 170-220 yards. The closer to the green the more downhill the lie though.

For the easiest, though I've never seen/played them... I am think The Old Course takes the cake.

Matt_Cohn

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2006, 02:53:45 PM »
Oak Hill
PGA West

Just to get the convo going...

cary lichtenstein

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2006, 03:04:41 PM »
Ritz in Jupiter, both 9 and 18
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Mike_Cirba

Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2006, 03:31:14 PM »
Whistling Straits.

I think I scored about 23 on those two holes.

Phil_the_Author

Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2006, 03:40:15 PM »
Shinnecock.

Mark Brown

Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2006, 08:11:01 PM »
Bull's Bay (Strantz - Charleston,SC)
Berkeley Hall - North (Fazio, Hilton Head)

Scott Cannon

Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2006, 08:41:16 PM »
Riviera
AGC

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2006, 10:41:53 PM »
Scott,

How can you equate # 9 with # 18 at Riviera ?

Kyle,

During a tournament, Winged Foot West.

Phil Young,

Agreed.

Kyle Harris

Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2006, 10:45:07 PM »
I imagine these are all good examples, could the contributors describe the holes in question if possible?

How about some easy finishes? Absent first hand experience, I offer the 9th and 18th at The Old Course as an example.

Another offer for the hardest: Bethpage Red.

JNC Lyon

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2006, 12:17:57 AM »
From the back tees, the Ocean Course, bar none, especially if the wind decides to switch against your favor.

I do agree on Oak Hill, which might be a nominee for having the toughest holes starting the nines (collectively I would rather try to play 9 and 18 at even par than I would 1 and 10, as I find 10 to be one of the hardest (and best) holes on the course.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 12:20:03 AM by JNC_Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Scott Cannon

Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2006, 12:24:45 AM »
Scott,

How can you equate # 9 with # 18 at Riviera ?

Patrick,
First of all, I had somewhat of a hard time thinking of a #9 and #18 of the courses that I have played which fit this question. I also thought of The Foot.
Maybe it's just me but I had a mid iron into #9. It's and uphill shot, wind blowing, to a smallish green. Yea it was a hard hole...for me.

Garland Bayley

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2006, 12:55:20 AM »
Whistling Straits.

I think I scored about 23 on those two holes.
Come on Mike, quit shaving strokes. We know it was 25!

Disclaimer: I don't know, Mike Cirba, I haven't played golf with Mike Cirba, I don't know his golf game, aaannnnnddddd,
Patrick Mucci, you are no Mike Cirba.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Matt_Cohn

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 02:26:15 AM »
Easiest (of well known courses):
Torrey South (2 par 5's)
New South Wales (9 is a short downhill par 4; 18 is a wide open par 5. not easy, but relatively easy!)

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 09:52:38 AM »
Kyle, we talked about The Red last night; in fact, I was typing my post and our power was knocked out.  

My nomination is for Bethpage Red Course's #9 and 18.  

#9 is one of many great holes in the middle part of the course, a stretch from #8 through to #16, that play over a large, relatively open field far away from the clubhouse complex.  
The hole is approximately 466 yards from the Blue tees, and is played over flat terrain, although not without interest.  A right to left dogleg hole, the tee shot offers several options to the golfer.  
The conservative player, or a shorter hitter, will play a straight ball from the tee, aiming at a group of evergreens on the far side of the fairway, separating the 9th and 10th holes.  Hitting the fairway from here should leave a second shot of about 230 yards, and at first glance, although this is a good distance for an approach shot, keep in mind that the stance is relatively level and the green is open in front, to accept a running approach.  
The more skillfull player will want to do one of two things; one, take an aggressive line with a straight shot down the left side, challenging a Tillinghast bunker complex and a grove of large trees, or try to draw the ball around the corner.  The reward to this method of play is that the golfer is rewarded with a shorter club in hand.  
The caveat here is that the left side of the green is defended with another great Tillinghast bunker which is deep, but not excessively penal.  Par is very possible from this bunker.  
Short right of the green is often a safe place to miss, as the green is open here, and absent two larger slopes within the green, offers the best spot for trying to save par from.  

The 18th, in contrast, is similar in yardage, but completely different in setting, topography, and selection of shots.  
The tee shot here is played from high up on a hill, the same hill that most of the course is situated on, the same hill that players play up when playing #1.  
Length from the Blue tees is about 445 yards, and new tees have been built that would add another 30 yards.  
Three strategies to the tee shot here, depending on wind conditions.  
Note; in my experience, I have found #18 to play more into the wind in the late afternoons than downwind.  
The first strategy is to play a straight ball down the middle of the fairway, playing back of the left and right fairway bunker complexes.  
The second strategy, one I employ often, is to start the ball over a large, gaping Tillinghast bunker cut into the hill on the right, and draw it back--a shot of about 290 yards.  This leaves about 165 yards in, usually about lateral with the right bunker.  
The third strategy would be to start the ball left and cut it back to center.  I believe a shorter shot also gives a level stance, but requires a longer, aerial approach in order to hit the green in regulation.  

Both flanking fairway bunkers create that elusive "half-stroke" penalty, and the right bunker may be more penal than the left, given its high face--good luck trying to reach the green from there!  If one lands in the left bunker, I would be more apt to pitch out, trying to leave an approach of 90 yards, for full wedge shot in.  

It is a treat to hit a drive well here, and watch it rise against the backdrop of sky and of the Black's 18th, clubhouse, Red's 1st and 18th holes, and collection of golfers around.  
Based on prior experience, length is amply rewarded here, as the golfer who can hit a long drive will be rewarded with a level stance, to a green that must be hit with an aerial approach.  Surrounded by five bunkers and rough, sitting in a natural ampthitheater (what a wonderful way to finish!) the green is relatively flat, although pitched slightly back to front.  
Recoveries from around the green are not terribly difficult, and good play is often met with applause from the golfers waiting to tee off on #1.  One of my favorite finishing holes in all of golf.  
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Mike_Cirba

Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2006, 01:07:29 PM »
Disclaimer: I don't know, Mike Cirba, I haven't played golf with Mike Cirba, I don't know his golf game, aaannnnnddddd,
Patrick Mucci, you are no Mike Cirba.


Garland,

I know Patrick Mucci, I've played golf with Patrick Mucci, I know his golf game, aaannnnnddddd....he's very happy he's no Mike Cirba!  ;D

Bill_McBride

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2006, 01:22:02 PM »
How about #9 and #18 at the Nicklaus Grand Cypress North and South nines?  Mirror image 440 yd par 4s to a double green around a big lake!  #9 doglegs right, #18 left.  Many doubles made on those holes....... :P

Jesse Jones

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2006, 02:21:35 PM »

How about #9 and #18 at Bulle Rock..


M. Shea Sweeney

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Re:Finishing up the nines... hardest and easiest
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2006, 04:37:52 PM »
Kyle, we talked about The Red last night; in fact, I was typing my post and our power was knocked out.  

My nomination is for Bethpage Red Course's #9 and 18.  
.  One of my favorite finishing holes in all of golf.  

The 18th hole at the Red is awesome, especially finishing up a tournament. Love the green, allows for people to check out the finishing groups without bothering play.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 04:38:56 PM by M. Shea Sweeney »

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