[PThomas]

let's celebrate the positives :

Ravisloe and Beverly in Chicago

[A.G._Crockett]

I haven't seen it, but I am hoping to soon:

Chattanooga Golf and CC, a Ross renovation by Bill Bergin of Atlanta.  He is very, very proud of it, and I love his original designs, so I am looking forward to getting up there this summer.

[PCCraig]

Glen View Club in Golf, IL.

[Larry_Rodgers]

Do not overlook Mr Gil Hanse work at the Soule Park golf course in Ojai.

[Patrick Hitt]

Paul,
Chicago has been a hotbed of restoration to various degrees of success. Besides the courses mentioned you have Prichard's work at Skokie, Exmoor, Lakeshore. Many other courses have had some work including Park Ridge, Sol's Briarwood(?), Northmoor, and Olympia North and soon South as well. I think the work at Philly CC and Aronimink are to be applauded as well.

[PThomas]

I believe Mr. Esler is working on Evanston CC as well

[wsmorrison]

Paul,

Good idea, there's been a lot of negatives on the board of late.  Starting with the topics themselves.  In celebrating the positives, I have a high regard for

Ron Forse at Philadelphia Country Club.  Opening up the course with the tree plan required expanding the bunkers back to their original size so that the scale would once again be in harmony.  They did a wonderful job.

Ron Prichard at Aronimink.  I guess this is more of a restoration to a paper plan rather than an on the ground result.  The work is terrific and in my mind an improvement on the golf course.  The members love it and we shouldn't forget how important that is.  If I could slightly criticize, I think some of the closely mown areas around some greens are a bit much.  Not all, but some.  Then again, the areas between and around 8 and 10 greens is wonderful.

I am not so big a fan of David Esler's work at Glen View.  I think it showed exceptional talent and imagination but is too radical a departure from the Flynn plan.  Some of the bunker slopes are too steep and some of the capes and bays so small that impossible shots result.  Is it possible for bunkers to look great but not play great?  It remains a terrific course, club and membership.

Tom Doak's restoration and remodeling at Atlantic City CC shows restraint where needed and alterations where required.  The combination of which improved the golf course dramatically!

My personal favorite might be the truest restoration I know of and that is at the Cascades.  Tom Paul just returned and 14 holes have been completed. If only Tom's camera was working (user error?) we could show you some of the results.  But we'll get some and do a photo essay of the work here, maybe in combination with a feature interview with Ran.  For those that know the course, I think you'll be pleased with this real restoration using a wealth of research never before assembled for a project.  It is only because we had so much time to put in before the work started that it was possible.    Sorry for the plug.

The restoration project at The Country Club in Pepper Pike, Ohio turned out very well.  The team from IMG did a marvelous job on this terrific Flynn course.

Other projects in the works that merit attention is the work at Cherry Hills by Mark Fine and Forest Richardson (right?), Columbia CC by Bob Walton and New Bedford Springs CC by Ron Forse and Jim Nagle.

[T_MacWood]

Of the courses listed which are renovations and which are restorations?

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

You know quite well that there have not been any pure restorations to date.  There have always been degrees of renovations or remodelings.  The answer to your question is therefore known to you, so why do you ask it?

However, this is changing.  The closest thing I've seen to a true restoration on my list is the one at the Cascades.  This was possible due to the vast wealth of material available, the technical skills of Craig Disher and an ownership group that wanted to go back to the Flynn design recognizing that was superior to that which was on the ground.  Yet, if some of the changes made were improvements, we more than likely would have suggested those remain.  

I cannot think of any other project that is close to a pure restoration and I am sure you agree.  That is the only reason an architect of record was not used at the Cascades, much to our disappointment and recommendations.  Yet it worked out just fine.

I'd say the work at The Country Club in Pepper Pike is fairly close to a restoration, though not a pure one.

I think in the case of Atlantic City CC and others it is a good thing that there wasn't a pure restoration.  As good as Flynn's designs were, especially the sandy waste areas, certain parts of the course were not functioning such as the back nine.

[T_MacWood]

Of the courses listed which are more restoration than renovation and vice versa?

Are the terms interchangable today?

[Mike_Sweeney]

NY Metgolfer article

http://www.mgagolf.org/intraclub/query/catquery.html?doc_number=5099

I posted this yesterday, but it got a little lost.

[wsmorrison]

"Of the courses listed which are more restoration than renovation and vice versa?"

Ahh, now that's better, Tom

"Are the terms interchangable today?"

I think the distinctions get blurred, but they should not be.  They do have very different meanings and the differences should be understood by all.  I hope that restorations are done where necessary and renovations done where necessary.  Again, Tom Doak's work at Atlantic City CC is a good example of where and when to restore or renovate.  Restoration for restoration's sake alone is not a good universal idea.  Sometimes improvements are justified.  Obviously getting the right decision makers is important.  I'm sure you'd agree amassing all evidence available so informed decisions can be made is key.

[David Ownby]

I haven't seen it, but I am hoping to soon:

Chattanooga Golf and CC, a Ross renovation by Bill Bergin of Atlanta.  He is very, very proud of it, and I love his original designs, so I am looking forward to getting up there this summer.

Does anyone have more information on the Chattanooga Golf and CC restoration/rennovatoin? I lived in Chattanooga for seven years and played there numerous times, but I haven't been there in almost ten years.

Last I remember they had undertaken some tree removal (particularly on the opening hole) to open up the great views of the river. I always liked the course, but felt that it was a little cramped (especially the back nine).

[Jerry Kluger]

Gil Hanse and George Bahto at Essex County.

[Dan_Callahan]

Two Ross resorations in recent years that came out great: The Orchards and Longmeadow CC.

A Pritchard renovation that got very little notice is Hanover CC in New Hampshire. New holes were added to great effect, all done without losing the quirky charm of this New England classic. One of the new holes (the 16th, I think) even added to the charm by giving you Dartmouth's Baker Library cupola as an aiming point.

[PCCraig]

Wayne,

  When you talk of the "capes and bays" at Glen View...what are you referring to exactly? The Bunkers?


  Pat

[PCCraig]

.

[SL_Solow]

I think Mark Mungeam did a great job at Briarwood in Deerfield Ill but I am prejudiced as I was directly involved.  Much of Esler's work at Glenview is being altered significantly by the membership.  As for Evanston, that is supposed to be done in collaboration between Pritchard and Esler but it has not been started and there is no set date to begin.

[wsmorrison]

Pat,

Sorry.  Yes, I meant the little capes and bays in the bunkers.  Getting stuck in these is known as getting Eslered.  I am not a fan of the look or playability on some of the holes, particularly the par 3 fourteenth, but liked many of the bunkers.  Tom Paul seemed to like it all.  Just goes to show that there are different strokes for different folks.

I know Esler lengthened the 8th hole by moving the green back, I didn't remember that he moved the green on 15 as well.  I lent my Esler master plan to someone and will have to get it back.

[peter_mcknight]

Apart from the addition of yardage to the back tees (different subject matter), the tree removal program instituted at famed Oakmont.  This restored the course back to its original bleak form which is what Fownes intended it to be.  The tree removal program there has been so successful that it led other courses (e.g., Winged Foot, Medinah #3) to thin out their trees as well.

I would have to agree on Aronimink, however.  It went first to renovation for the 1993 USPGA, then restored back to its Ross roots after the club decided not to host the 1993 USPGA, so that course went through quite the transformation.

[Craig Disher]

Other projects in the works that merit attention is the work at Cherry Hills by Mark Fine and Forest Richardson (right?), Columbia CC by Bob Walton and New Bedford Springs CC by Ron Forse and Jim Nagle.

I am really anxious to see how Bob Walton's efforts at Columbia come out. His approach to reclaiming the classic feel of the course is spot on, imo. It will also be interesting to see a terrific course renovated by someone other than the usual suspects who typically get the jobs around DC.

[PCCraig]

Just to throw one more out there in the chicagoland area (this is my last I swear):

Chevy Chase in Wheeling, IL.

Ages ago it was Columbia CC, then was bought by the park district and was neglected for decades...always a good lay-out, but it always seemed like the only thing the mowed were the tees and greens.

Bob Lohman (sp?) GCA of the Merit Club, came in and restored the whole place...now I think it is just awesome, very classic, fun, golf course.

Anyone else play it?

[wsmorrison]

My turn to quote you, Craig:

"I am really anxious to see how Bob Walton's efforts at Columbia come out. His approach to reclaiming the classic feel of the course is spot on, imo. It will also be interesting to see a terrific course renovated by someone other than the usual suspects who typically get the jobs around DC"

Me thinks the guy you are referring to has initials that also represent where his brains are for restorations, right?

Speaking of Columbia CC.  Flynn was getting paid to do work there as early as 1921 and he was paid the same amount as Travis on at least one invoice.  Bob Walton suspects Flynn had a lot more to do with CCC than we thought (1st hole and 2nd green).  He thinks there are a number of Flynn greens there.  Craig, we should meet over there sometime soon, especially when Bob is there.  I know you saw him there at least once, what do you think?

[TEPaul]

Wayne:

Frankly, I'm glad my camera wasn't working at the Cascades. Some of the bunkers don't even have sod on them and the ones that do need time to grow in.

Judging from what happened on this website with the Merion bunkers, I don't think any photos of the Cascades bunkers should be shown until about June/July of '07.

But the point is they're sticking right with Flynn and his plans, other than those RTJ holes.

[wsmorrison]

Good point, Tom about waiting for things to settle in before any criticisms or praises are hurled.  I thought Don and Doug said they were laying sod, but I guess I was mistaken.  Can't wait to see the work in any case.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()