Kyle,

While you can flip flop the approach, you can't alter the tilt, and that's a key to a Redan, but, I like your thinking and your drawing isn't bad either.

Interesting iteration. I'd put tees on the left and some on the right and ditch that tee that looks like Desmond Muirhead's #4 at Stone Harbor. # 4 Stone Harbor is the ugliest looking tee I've ever seen (matter of fact you can walk it down the left all the way to the green I believe. The green is really good though.

Hey, Kyle, do you also like those old golf clubs they made once that were about 8 clubs in one? All you had to do is click it back and forth to adjust the loft.  

Kyle,

With most I've seen the orientation wouldn't lend itself to your concept.



Cheers,
Steve

Kyle,

I cannot see how the Redan concept could really hold true from both sides of an axis to a single target. I thought the two primary ingredients to the Redan were the bunker protecting the inside corner of the green and the cant of the green towards that bunker and also away from the tee (in the normal iteration - front right corner to back left corner). It would seem impossible to keep those characteristice if the playing direction were to change as drastically as your diagram.

Do you guys see the two tees on either end of the tee box? It may not show up on the rendering too well.

Both bunkers are below the green.... and the green falls off on all sides except toward the tee.

I could prove this through geometry if you'd like.

John,

Apart from the semantics of the Reverse Redan, how does the Redan concept not work the other way? It's about strategy and execution, not benefitting one specific shot.

I take the concept as "fooling" the golfer into shooting for the flag, when the correct play is away from the hole using the slope to feed the ball to the hole. An angular bunker fronting the green and "shoulder" of terrain on the one end of the green to kick the ball toward the hole and a green that falls away from the golfer at an oblique angle from the tee are my requirements for a Redan.

From CB Macdonald:

"Take a narrow tableland and tilt it a little from right to left, dig a deep bunker on the front side approach it diagonally and you have a Redan."

From Geoff Shackelford:

"In most cases, the Redan presents an angled green that slopes slightly away from the player, with a bunker in front of the green and a nice bit of helping contour on the approach designed to give the golfer options in attacking the hole. The player who shoots straight for the flagstick had better hit a high, precise shot. The less bold player can stay away from the fronting greenside bunker and run his shot into the green, using the contour to help kick the ball onto the surface."

The only mention of an actual direction is in CB Mac's definition - surely you'll agree it works just as well in the other direction, though.

Quote from: Rich Goodale on January 31, 2006, 09:30:20 AM

PS--I think your diagram looks like Dan King eating a canteloupe.

THAT is a nominee for funniest post of the year. When I went back and looked at the drawing, I almost spit out my lunch  

Flattering, consider it would be the closest I've ever come to drawing something that looks remotely like a person.

Kyle,

Again, since you can't alter the slope of the green, you can't construct a reverse redan merely by moving the tee.

John Cullum,

Not true.

A high cut is a prefered shot into a redan when the hole is located far left and toward the front edge of the green.

Quote from: Rich Goodale on January 31, 2006, 09:30:20 AM

PS--I think your diagram looks like Dan King eating a canteloupe.

THAT is a nominee for funniest post of the year. When I went back and looked at the drawing, I almost spit out my lunch  

Same here, almost spit out my lunch, too!

Personally I don't see it. Maybe it's like one of those boats you are suppose to see if you look at the pic just right.



Dan King

They (melons) never do me any harm when they are very good, when I eat them while very hungry and before the meat, as the doctors order.
 --Henri IV of France (1589-1610)

Kyle,

Here is another reason why I don't think it wouldn't work.

For the record, I did say this wasn't to scale.

Kyle,

Regardless of the scale I think you would need a hefty distance from one side of you tee to the other to achieve the desirable angle and distance?

Steve

One of the things that I never see mentioned much at all about redans or what I'd consider to be the two best redans in the States (NGLA's and Piping's) is their redan bunker is just massive and really high. I'll never forget how intimidating that was for me and all my friends when I was little. I don't care who you are if you're ball gets near the face of either of those bunkers you have your work cut out for you to just get your ball up that high. It's like the bunker to the right of Maidstone's 9th---it's just really tough for anyone to get their ball that high if you're at all close to it.

I didn't really pay that much attention to how high the redan bunker was at North Berwick. Is it as high as NGLA's or Piping Rock's?