Best 4 Adjacent Courses By Different Designers

« **on:** January 21, 2006, 10:14:48 AM »

Bandon with its 3 world class courses by different designers led me to wonder about areas with 4 such courses. I first thought of Long Island with Shinnecock, NGLA, Seth Raynors Southhampton Golf Club and now Seabonack basically right next to each other.

Are there any other areas that have 4 courses of this caliber by different designers in such close proximity? Any better than the 4 cited?

« **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2006, 10:17:12 AM »

Lulu - Ross
Manufacturer's - Flynn
Philly Cricket - Tillinghast
Whitemarsh - Thomas

All within 3 miles of each other. All within the second tier of each architect's portfolio.

« **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2006, 10:35:08 AM »

This guess is somewhat speculative, because the last course does not officially open until this year, but given his recent work, I am sure it will be highly regarded. All these courses abut each other;

Long Island

Southampton (Raynor)
Shinnecock Hills (Flynn)
National Golf Links of America (Macdonald)
Sebonack (Doak & Nicklaus)

TK

*Sorry Dan, aparently I stopped reading your initial post after "areas with 4 such courses".

« **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:18:31 AM »

In the southwest corner of San Francisco, you will find:

1) Olympic Club Lake
2) San Francisco GC
3) Lake Merced
4) Harding Park

Collectively, these courses have hosted US Opens, USGA Amateurs, USGA Juniors, the Curtis Cup and multiple PGA Tour events.

If you stand alongside the 4th green on the OC Ocean course, you can see all four of those courses.

« **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:21:53 AM »

Who designed the New Course and original Jubilee at St Andrews? Might all four come into the reckoning even though the Eden has been castrated?

« **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:26:35 AM »

Prestwick, Troon Old, Troon Portland and Troon Lochgreen probably come into the reckoning, but I don't know who may have designed Lochgreen. For that matter, who did Portland?

« **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:29:22 AM »

CPC (MacKenzie)
Spyglass (RTJ)
MPCC Shore (Strantz)
MPCC Dunes (Raynor-Rees)

All within a very scenic walk of each other.

Oh, and that other one 5 miles to the south.

« **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:34:41 AM »

Wingfoot East and West, Quaker Ridge, Fenway

« **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:38:55 AM »

Modern Courses: Colleton River: Nicklaus and Dye both rated in Golf Magazines top 100 U.S. at same time --but not now.

« **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:39:42 AM »

I'm not familiar enough with the greater Atlantic
City, New Jersey area to know how close all of these are, but.......

Hidden Creek Coore and Crenshaw
Atlantic City CC Flynn rev Doak
Twisted Dune Struthers
Blue Heron Kaye
Blue Heron Smyers
Galloway Fazio
Seaview Bay Ross
Seaview Pines Flynn etc

Pretty good architectural variety, some solid courses.

« **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:45:25 AM »

Tiger,

Aren't all four of those courses attributed to Tillinghast? Dan asks for different architects.

TK

« **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2006, 11:58:11 AM »

Quote from: Mark_Rowlinson on January 21, 2006, 11:21:53 AM

Who designed the New Course and original Jubilee at St Andrews? Might all four come into the reckoning even though the Eden has been castrated?

St. Andrews clearly qualifies. TOC God, New Old Tom, Eden and Jubilee see below. And with #7 nearing completion... should be pretty exceptional.

What about Palm Springs? Australia? Florida? I can't think of any in Ireland, am I wrong?

From the St. Andrews website.

Now well into its second century of life, the Jubilee Course has developed from a basic 12-hole layout into what many consider to be the toughest test of golf at St Andrews.

Created on a narrow strip of prime golfing land between the New Course and the sea, the Jubilee was originally intended for ladies and beginners. It was laid out by John Angus junior and made ready in only three months.

The course was named in honour of Queen Victoria, whose Diamond Jubilee fell in 1897. On a full day of celebrations, the Jubilee Fountain was unveiled on the Links and the Jubilee Course was officially opened by Mary Macgregor, wife of Provost John Macgregor, who struck the first drive with a commemorative club made by Old Tom Morris.

18 Holes
Around 1902 David Honeyman, Tom Morris' right hand man, suggested that it was possible to extend the course to 18 holes. This was done in 1905 at a cost of £150.

Further Improvements
Between 1938 and 1946, further improvements were made under the supervision of Willie Auchterlonie, the Open Champion of 1893. He increased the course's length to 6,020 yards and commented that "..some day this will be a championship course".

A Championship Layout.
In 1988 the re-design of the Jubilee to championship standard was carried out by Donald Steel. The teeing grounds were raised, not only providing wonderful views of the Links, but also exposing the golfers to the winds which sweep in from the bay. Mr. Steel's redesigned course now plays at 6,742 yards and is a real test for all golfers.

Eden
Opened for play in 1914, the Eden course was designed by Harry S. Colt.

For construction photos of #7.

http://site.comhttp://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/course_no7_toNov05.html

« **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2006, 12:00:10 PM »

The three Gullanes and Muirfield plus Luffness.

Ciao

Sean

« **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2006, 12:02:33 PM »

Quote from: Tyler Kearns on January 21, 2006, 11:45:25 AM

Tiger,

Aren't all four of those courses attributed to Tillinghast? Dan asks for different architects.

TK

Yes, 4 different architects, but there must be 4 in Westchester County based on how many courses you can see flying into La Guardia.

Any course that you can be teeing off on within 15 minutes of putting the flag in on 18 at the prior course will qualify.

« **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2006, 12:08:39 PM »

There is sure lots of Tillinghast in Westchester. Four close to each other with different designers:

Century- Colt and Allison
Westchester CC- Travis
CC of Purchase- Jack Nicklaus
Fenway- Tillinghast

The reason I've got Purchase in here is that I wanted to keep this within 10 miles or so and in same state. I could have put Blind Brook which was a Raynor at one point, but I don't know much about it.

« **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2006, 12:27:10 PM »

....although the caliber of the courses might not be equal to many of the previously mentioned,.... but, for the closest physical adjacency by different designers, I would think Barefoot Resort is probably the strongest contender.

Each of the courses touch two others and they are laid out in a circle.

« **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2006, 12:28:24 PM »

Kiawah Island has at least four courses that are rated 4 stars or better by Golf Digest. One would think that the Ocean Course plus any three other courses woould put the property at or near the top of any list. In addition to Dye, aren't there courses by Nicklaus, Fazio, and Watson? Probably a few more architects as well, so the criteria of the question is met.

« **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2006, 12:37:20 PM »

Sorry: I didn't notice the "4" I was thinking two

4 Modern: Kiawah: Ocean (Dye), River (Fazio), Turtle Point
(Nicklaus) Cassique (Watson)

Does anyone else play modern courses?

« **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2006, 12:41:18 PM »

The Kiawah courses are very good but not literally "adjacent" (Cassique is isolated, and the others are not grouped together, even if they are close). Same for the Westchester ones.

Southampton-Shinnecock-NGLA-Sebonack are adjacent (i.e. adjoining in a series) but don't fit the bill of separate designers owing to Raynor's involvement.

The Barefoot Courses fit the geographic standard but not the qualitative standard as "best."

Without taking off your shoes, I doubt you could do better than Royal Birkdale-Southport & Ainsdale-Hillside-Formby-West Lancashire-Wallasey-Royal Liverpool.

« **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2006, 01:18:11 PM »

The string of courses comprising Melbourne's 'Sandbelt' would work, although they are not entirely independent in regards to their architects. Russell worked with Mackenzie on the West course at Royal Melbourne, and Mackenzie was responsible for the bunkering scheme at Kingston Heath.

Woodlands (Banks & Bennett)
Royal Melbourne West (Mackenzie)
Royal Melbourne East (Russell)
Kingston Heath (Soutar)

TK

« **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2006, 01:22:02 PM »

Quote from: Brad Klein on January 21, 2006, 12:41:18 PM

Southampton-Shinnecock-NGLA-Sebonack are adjacent (i.e. adjoining in a series) but don't fit the bill of separate designers owing to Raynor's involvement.

Interesting point but I can't agree. MacDonald/Raynor, assuming Rayner gets credit as co-designer, is not the same architect as Raynor alone any more than Nicklaus/Doak would be the same architect as Nicklaus or Doak alone.

« **Reply #21 on:** January 21, 2006, 01:38:35 PM »

Not close enough to border each other, but Reynolds Plantation has Nicklaus, 2 by Cupp, Fazio, & Rees Jones with an Engh on the way. Plus Cuscowilla (C&C) is pretty close to Great Waters. Also Harbor Club - Weiskopf and Morrish.

Andy

« **Reply #22 on:** January 21, 2006, 04:07:06 PM »

In driving order to minimize travel time.....

Muirfield Village - Nicklaus/Muirhead
Scioto - Ross/Wilson
OSU Scarlet - Maxwell/Mackenzie
Double Eagle - Weiskopf/Morrish
The Golf Club - Dye

Sorry, that's five. And not exactly "adjacent", but what's 20 minutes when you have another good golf course ahead of you.....

« **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2006, 05:08:45 PM »

You know what they say about Muirfield Village - eighth best in the world but only fourth best in Columbus.

« **Reply #24 on:** January 21, 2006, 08:43:58 PM »

"Southampton-Shinnecock-NGLA-Sebonack are adjacent (i.e. adjoining in a series) but don't fit the bill of separate designers owing to Raynor's involvement."

What was Raynor's design involvement at NGLA? If he was the engineer and did not participate in the design process; I would factor out Raynor completely. I've always considered NGLA a Macdonald course and not Macdonald/Raynor. Am I wrong?

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