Strategy without penality...

« **on:** January 06, 2006, 11:18:32 AM »

Why be strategic if there is no penalty for not doing so...

« **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:23:11 AM »

I have to believe that the wider the course the harder the good player hits it...sounds like fun to me..

« **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:28:25 AM »

If there's width with no penalty, the course isn't strategic.

« **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:31:59 AM »

If you are a guy like me who loves to break eighty and you make a horrible swing that allows a recovery for a tough par but easy bogey..you have no penalty and thus no strategy. To make a guy really think, horrible swings must have the potential to wreck a round.

« **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:35:00 AM »

Quote from: Craig Disher on January 06, 2006, 11:28:25 AM

If there's width with no penalty, the course isn't strategic.

Craig

Unless the course is completely--and I mean COMPLETELY--flat and featureless, it is impossible to have width and not have strategy.

Cheers

Rich

« **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:40:40 AM »

Rich,

How short does a par four of infinite width have to become before you aim directly at the green and hit it as hard as you can..

« **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:46:41 AM »

If, on that infinite width hole, you decide to swing within yourself because the ball usually goes straighter when you do and thus will leave a shorter shot in (shortest distance between two points and so on), are you being strategic?

« **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:59:56 AM »

JES,

I would say that any hole where you hit driver it is not strategic...unless the strategy is to drive the green. With the distance we all hit our 3 woods these days if we really give a damn about this side or that we hit the 3 wood or utility club. What's twenty or thirty yards amongst strategic friends..

« **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:06:45 PM »

John,

I guess you may have been on sabatical during the Driver For Accuracy thread three or four months ago. Seriously, that was a thread and it had alot of substance.

I'm not sure I can agree that just because you hit driver you're not being strategic. The strategy comes into play when you have to make any decision on the tee, sometimes that decision is still going to be driver whether or not you're going for the green.

« **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:09:04 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 06, 2006, 11:40:40 AM

Rich,

How short does a par four of infinite width have to become before you aim directly at the green and hit it as hard as you can..

John

As long as it is at or beyond how far you can hit your driver, you should hit your tee shot on a hole of infiinite width as hard as you can.

...and, just to amend for Jim's comments above I would substitute for the last 4 words of the above sentence ".....as optimally far as you can."

« **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:11:14 PM »

Not stratigic if you hit driver? I do not get that, In casual rounds I hit driver on just about every hole. I tend to thry to hit it right or left depending on the hole. On par 5's I always hit driver i think of #1 at Rustic Canyon. I always hit driver there trying to go down the left side closer to the OB but it will give me a better chance of hitting the green in 2 cause of the way the dry bed runs in front of the green. I just disagree with that point.

« **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:17:49 PM »

Brian...How close is this OB you hug on the first hole. You're not a wardreloader are you.

« **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:25:36 PM »

Quote from: JES II on January 06, 2006, 11:46:41 AM

If, on that infinite width hole, you decide to swing within yourself because the ball usually goes straighter when you do and thus will leave a shorter shot in (shortest distance between two points and so on), are you being strategic?

JES,
On a course of infinite width a ripped 300 yard drive that's pulled 15 degrees off line will give a shorter approach to the green than a smooth, straight 3-wood.

Rich,
It's a continuum. Nearly all courses have some features, of course. What I'm referring to are courses where there are no significant strategic features in play. I don't think a hole with 60-yard wide, fairly flat fairway and bunkers set into the rough would be called strategic, at least off the tee.

« **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:36:55 PM »

Craig

I am talking of the golfer's strategy, not the course's (and, as we all know, I do not believe that inanimate objects such as golf courses can be "strategic."). The example you give expresses this perfectly--do you as player choose the strategy of hitting the ball shorter and straighter with a 3-wood or longer and crookeder with a driver? If there are no intervening features, the strategy is a no-brainer--hit the driver, stupid!

PS--I forget my trigonometry. How much closer to the pin would a 300 yard drive 15 degrees off line be than a 270 yard 3 wood hit dead straight? What's the formula? I really would like to know. Thanks.

« **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:36:57 PM »

Craig, I'm forgetting my geometry, so could you show me how a 10% difference in distance is a smaller discrepency than a 15 degree difference in accuracy as you state above.

I never said a smooth three-wood, I said a conservative swing versus an aggressive swing. If you want to use a greater than 10% distance difference that's fine just indicate it in your formula please.

If I can really hit a drive 300 when I put the hammer down, my smooth drive is easily 270.

« **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:38:39 PM »

And those posts were two seconds apart Rich, pretty good. Although is trigonometry or geometry?

« **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:43:38 PM »

Quote from: JES II on January 06, 2006, 12:38:39 PM

And those posts were two seconds apart Rich, pretty good. Although is trigonometry or geometry?

Both!

« **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:45:39 PM »

I tried to do it on Excel, but couldn't even figure it out there.

« **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:49:48 PM »

Rich,

A three hundred yard drive 15deg off goes out in a straight direction to an infinitely wide green 288 yds...it is simply (cos15)*(300)....you might also be interested to know that you are now 78 yds wide of center. I simply can't believe that a drive 78 yds wide is only 12 yds shorter...It just makes me want to hit driver all the more...if you don't believe me check the math as I am sure we all remember a squared plus b squared equals c squared. So 77.6457 squared plus 289.7777 squared does equal 300 squared..

« **Reply #19 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:52:21 PM »

I think he means finished 15 deg off, not starts 15 deg off

« **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:56:20 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 06, 2006, 12:49:48 PM

Rich,

A three hundred yard drive 15deg off goes out in a straight direction to an infinitely wide green 288 yds...it is simply (cos15)*(300)....you might also be interested to know that you are now 78 yds wide of center.

John

I don't have the time to check the validity of your hpothetical 300x288X78 yard triangle, but on the surface I can see why you make so much money laying asphalt...........

« **Reply #21 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:08:39 PM »

Quote from: Scott Cannon on January 06, 2006, 12:52:21 PM

I think he means finished 15 deg off, not starts 15 deg off

In all seriousness please help me out...doesn't it have to be 15 deg off of the tee. I hadn't messed with this stuff in 20 years but if you shank a driver and still manage to hit it 300 yds it will go 212 yds out and 212 yds wide..somebody is gonna get hurt.

« **Reply #22 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:18:28 PM »

I guess based on those numbers you gave John (78 yards wide and 12 yards short), its pretty tough to actually hit a ball 15 degrees off-line. What does 5 degrees mean in terms of distance from target? The formula you posted did not work for me on Excel, sorry.

The age old question, what do you really gain by swinging for the fences?

« **Reply #23 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:22:55 PM »

300 yd drive, 15 deg off would put you 45 yards off center...in all seriousness

« **Reply #24 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:28:39 PM »

Is that 15 degrees or 15 percent?

News:

John Kavanaugh

John Kavanaugh

Craig Disher

John Kavanaugh

ForkaB

John Kavanaugh

JESII

John Kavanaugh

JESII

ForkaB

Brian Noser

John Kavanaugh

Craig Disher

ForkaB

JESII

JESII

ForkaB

JESII

John Kavanaugh

Scott Cannon

ForkaB

John Kavanaugh

JESII

Scott Cannon

JESII