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Kyle Harris

"Regional" Architects
« on: January 05, 2006, 02:29:01 PM »
What are some of the works of note of "Regional" architects?

Who are some regional architects?

The Philly area has Jim Blaukavitch.
DC area has Ault & Clark
Western PA has a lot of Harrison & Garbin work...

Bill Gayne

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2006, 02:54:11 PM »
If you consider the southeast U.S. a region then Bobby Weed. Work of note would be Olde Farm in Bristol.

Jay Cox

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2006, 02:57:53 PM »
New England had Geoffrey Cornish and now has Brian Silva and Mark Mungeam, although all three took some projects outside the northeast.

Craig_Rokke

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2006, 03:00:28 PM »
Kyle-

What do you or anyone else in the Phila area know about Shearon Golf Design? I know they do some Mid Atlantic work, and they seem to be gaining some exposure. They do appear to be quite diverse, though,
focusing on other areas of commercial, and athletic field work.

Anyone play the course they did in Oaks, PA?

Kyle Harris

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2006, 03:02:29 PM »
I know Ed Shearon is Wayne Morrison's favorite architect. As far as I know he does a lot of contracted restoration jobs, ie some work at Rolling Green.

I know the course in Oaks, but haven't played. Go up 422 a bit to Pottstown and play Bella Vista by Jim Blaukavitch.

That one definately goes in the "not too bad and worth a trip if you're in the area" category.

david h. carroll

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2006, 03:06:05 PM »
Another mid-atlantic guy is Lindsey Ervin:

Queenstown Harbour
Compass Pointe
Links at Gettysburg
The Woodlands
Birdwood

Dave Bourgeois

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2006, 03:19:52 PM »
New England had Geoffrey Cornish and now has Brian Silva and Mark Mungeam, although all three took some projects outside the northeast.

That came to mind as well as Stephen Kay to a lesser extent in NY/NJ.

Peter Pallotta

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2006, 03:22:37 PM »
I don't know if he's considered regional, but in the Toronto area I like Doug Carrick's work very much; some think Eagles Nest is the best new course in Canada. (It was built, I think, on an old dump: not a landill, but for years a place where we brought construction refuse: old concrete, bricks, dirt). I also like his Copper Creek (very pretty, except for the clubhouse, IMO) and his 3 different 18s at Osprey Valley.  

But I guess he's not really regional: I read on Robert Thompson's site that he has a project on the go called The Carrick, next to Loch Lomand in Scotland.  

Peter

BCrosby

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2006, 03:37:11 PM »
Mike Young for the SE.

I agree with Bobby Weed as well for the SE.

Both are very talented guys.

Bob
« Last Edit: January 05, 2006, 04:14:36 PM by BCrosby »

JeffTodd

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2006, 03:51:38 PM »
Kyle-

What do you or anyone else in the Phila area know about Shearon Golf Design? I know they do some Mid Atlantic work, and they seem to be gaining some exposure. They do appear to be quite diverse, though,
focusing on other areas of commercial, and athletic field work.

Anyone play the course they did in Oaks, PA?
The only Shearon course I've played is Riverwinds in Deptford, NJ. The course isn't perfect, but it's quite good. There is a solid middle stretch of holes that is as good as any other public offerings in the area. I think it's one of the best mid-price (sub $75) public courses in South Jersey.

I haven't played the PA course or the Vineyards course at the Renault Winery. I'd be interested in feedback from anyone who has.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2006, 05:36:27 PM by JeffTodd »

JNC Lyon

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2006, 03:52:50 PM »
Harrison and Garbin have also done work in Western New York, and both were veritable HACKS in their profession.  I know Harrison built all his greens a heart shape, sloping back to front, with hollows/bunkers/small ponds on either side of the green.  Unlike some generalizations, this one is definitely true.  I played one Harrison course that had OB left on EVERY hole on the front nine, and the other course at the facility, across the street, has OB left on 12 holes.  Another course of his has OB left on seven holes.  None of these courses have ANY holes with OB right.  That is just bad routing, any way you slice it.  Garbin also did the renovation at Elmira CC, an old Tillinghast course that destroyed only its best holes.  the resulting holes are some of the worst creations known to man, and they make Fazio's work at Oak Hill and Inverness look like masterpieces.

For good regional architects, my favorite in Rochester is Pete Craig.  He built several playable courses around the area, whose main defense is very severe greens.  My favorites of his are:

-Soaring Eagles (only played nine holes here, but I remember a bunch of fun holes).

-Wild Wood (formerly Thunder Ridge, loads of fun.  Its kind of a Jekyll and Hyde course, with the front relatively wide open, and then the back nine plunges into swampy woodlands, creating several unique holes.  Very short course, but still a joy to play).

-Deerfield (formerly Craig Hill, as it was owned by Pete Craig and teaching pro Bobby Hill.  Emerald and wizard nines are long from the back tees, but the greens are totally wild and make the course a lot of fun to play, along with good land).
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

david h. carroll

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2006, 03:56:37 PM »
How about GCA frequenter Lester George and his work in VA?

Kinloch
Old White
Cavalier
etc

Kyle Harris

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2006, 04:10:37 PM »
Harrison and Garbin have also done work in Western New York, and both were veritable HACKS in their profession.  I know Harrison built all his greens a heart shape, sloping back to front, with hollows/bunkers/small ponds on either side of the green.  Unlike some generalizations, this one is definitely true.  I played one Harrison course that had OB left on EVERY hole on the front nine, and the other course at the facility, across the street, has OB left on 12 holes.  Another course of his has OB left on seven holes.  None of these courses have ANY holes with OB right.  That is just bad routing, any way you slice it.  Garbin also did the renovation at Elmira CC, an old Tillinghast course that destroyed only its best holes.  the resulting holes are some of the worst creations known to man, and they make Fazio's work at Oak Hill and Inverness look like masterpieces.

For good regional architects, my favorite in Rochester is Pete Craig.  He built several playable courses around the area, whose main defense is very severe greens.  My favorites of his are:

-Soaring Eagles (only played nine holes here, but I remember a bunch of fun holes).

-Wild Wood (formerly Thunder Ridge, loads of fun.  Its kind of a Jekyll and Hyde course, with the front relatively wide open, and then the back nine plunges into swampy woodlands, creating several unique holes.  Very short course, but still a joy to play).

-Deerfield (formerly Craig Hill, as it was owned by Pete Craig and teaching pro Bobby Hill.  Emerald and wizard nines are long from the back tees, but the greens are totally wild and make the course a lot of fun to play, along with good land).

H&G also did the original Blue Course at PSU (the first few holes of which are now on the white, see the MHC). The holes done by them at PSU range from very good (1st Blue, 2nd White, 4th White, 3-6 Blue, 9 Blue) to really bad (7-8 Blue).

Steve_ Shaffer

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2006, 05:32:39 PM »
Shearon also did the restoration/renovation work at Whitemarsh Valley which I haven't seen. His new work includes Riverwinds-a good value course that I've played many times,Renault Vineyards-a course that is getting mixed reviews and that I haven't played and Raven's Claw in Limerick- panned by Mike Cirba.

www.shearongolf.com
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Leahy

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2006, 07:52:31 PM »
What are some of the works of note of "Regional" architects?Who are some regional architects?/quote]

Bill Bell Sr. and Jr. seem to have done many courses on the west coast that I have always enjoyed. I don't know if they got off the west coast or not.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Andy Troeger

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2006, 08:00:43 PM »
Bill Diddel who was just mentioned on another thread has done a number of wonderful courses in the Midwest, including a good number in Indiana.


John Foley

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2006, 08:37:25 PM »
Don't forget our own Scott Witter here in Western NY. Very good course at Arrowhead and a few others in the works.

JNC - goog call w/ - Pete Craig. he shure was prolific here in WNY. I defenetly liked derrfield and Wildwood has a few good holes. He should have done better at Eagle Vae.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Lloyd_Cole

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2006, 10:40:49 PM »
Wayne Stiles's company with Van Kleek had offices in NY and FL also but half of his acredited courses (in Architects of Golf) are in Massachusetts.
These include Taconic, Wahconah, and Oak Hill where I was recently humbled. When my damned career allows I will get some photos to post here. I bought the camera.

Buck Wolter

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2006, 10:54:41 PM »
The Foulis Brothers in the early 1900's and Gary Kern for the last 20 or so in St. Louis
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

JNC Lyon

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2006, 06:46:16 PM »
John Foley:

I don't think Craig designed Eagle Vale, as the greens sure aren't like him, and I would have counted on more flair from tee to green.  Really not a very good course.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 06:47:16 PM by JNC_Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Jim Adkisson

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2006, 08:34:40 PM »
One of my favorite archies is Bill Robinson...He recently has designed a new muni course for the little city of Newberg Oregon that had the first 9 open this last summer with the back to open in mid-06...He had owned (and designed) Ocean Dunes GC in Florence Oregon, a tricky shorter course winding around lots of open blown-out dunesland http://www.oceandunesgolf.com/images/sm_versions/hole4-5.jpg ...He's also designed the OGA Course and Tri-Mountain in Ridgefield WA....both are fun full sized courses that work through wetland areas (though OGA is becoming more forested with houses than Filbert orchards)...his green complexes are varied, fair and challenging...

mike_beene

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2006, 09:00:21 PM »
Bill Diddle sp? ventured to Dallas and did Northwood which somehow got a US Open 6 years later.Is that the only time he left the midwest?In Texas,Ralph Plummer was involved in a number of courses over the years.

Paul Payne

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2006, 10:26:50 PM »
Here in Minnesota we have Joel Goldstrand. He is very interesting in that he is a very prolific designer. They even have what they call the "Joel Goldstrand Trail" here locally.

You will never see one of his courses in any top anything list but he is quite talented. He has a knack for taking some of the smallest or seemingly uninteresting property you could imagine, and make a very good course out of it. Some of his holes are quirky, some are just as you would expect from any decent architect, while others are downright inspired.

He has probably been one of the driving forces behind bringing golf to the masses with affordable courses up here.
nothing flashy but often some really good golf. Considering what he starts with usually, I have to tip my hat to him and say well done.




Michael Robin

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2006, 02:44:03 AM »
John Harbottle is doing a lot of work in SoCal. I thought the renovation at Saticoy was excellent! Old Billy Bell in Ventura County that is now top 5  south of Monterey. Anybody else played here recently?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2006, 01:16:52 PM by Michael Robin »

wsmorrison

Re:"Regional" Architects
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2006, 08:54:14 AM »
A lot of content so far in this thread.  I would add Bob Walton of Malek and Walton to the list of regional architects.  One of his regions is in the Czech Republic but he also does restoration work in the middle Atlantic region.

Steve,

Take a look at Whitemarsh Valley.  The before and after bunker restoration looks are quite different.  I do not like the current forms and the whiter than white sand is blinding at times and not attractive at other times.  

I was told that Shearon was supposed to remove the top layers of the 16th green at Rolling Green and resoil and regrass.  The green was recontoured and is out of character with the other greens and Flynn in general.  Too bad because the other Flynn greens are pure.  The spine he put in the back of the green is too high and too short.  It just doesn't work visually and from a playability standpoint.  It also seems that the resulting work pools water on either side of the spine.

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