What feature disgusts you at Tabacco Road..

« **on:** December 30, 2005, 08:02:27 PM »

You'll gotta have something cause I've played enough of the lower tier Golfweek top 100 to know this course should easily be on the list. All I hear is some people love it and some people hate it...I happen to love it but if pressed...

I gotta go with the walk from the 17th green to the 18th tee...Given the lousy nature of the 18th hole I don't get it..

« **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2005, 08:19:22 PM »

I love it...love it....love it

Check your spelling

« **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2005, 08:32:55 PM »

My least favorite feature there are the several greens which are wide and shallow. A lot of poor players just don't have that shot, so they get to stand out in the fairway and aim at the green knowing that even if they hit a good one, they're going to bounce through the green into a bunker. Once or twice a round that's okay, you should pay some price for not being able to hit the ball in the air; but not repeatedly.

[It's not just for the poor players, either; if you're a good player this sort of design requires you to play by the yardage numbers, because if your eye is off by more than five yards, you're screwed.]

What I like most about it is that it's very original, and it's not too long.

« **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2005, 08:37:56 PM »

John

I can't think of a bad hole on The Road. I spose #4 and #11 are somewhat similar. There are three par three which feauture narrow-wide greens. However, they are passable because each has a distinction. #6 is has the immense width of the tee and is fairly flat. #14 has the water and the green is turned to become long-narrow. #17 is downhill. In someways the green reminds me of #15. Sort of a boomerang green. There are also some excellent holes. #5, #8, #9, #11, #12 & #14 come to mind. Of course all the funk is what really sells the place. Strictly looking at the architecture of the holes, I think TR blew Mid Pines and Pine Needles away during the Dixie Cup. However, the poor walking aspect of The Road really drags the course from great to very good. The walk from 17 green to 18 tee is particularly harsh when one walks right by the 18th tee to play 17. There are many walks I don't like.

#2 green to #3 tee (walking back into play of #2)
#3 green to #4 tee
#5 green to #6 tee (especially when the tee is far right)
#7 green to #8 tee
#9 green to #10 tee
#12 green to #13 tee (terrible walk)
#13 green to #14 tee (terrible walk)
#14 green to #15 tee (terrible walk)

To be fair there are a few terrific little walks.

#6 green to #7 is great. A little scramble up the bank. Plus guys on the tee get a good view of #6.

#8 green to #9 tee is a lovely scramble up the dune.
#11 green to #12 tee through the shady trees is lovely.

Maybe the best of all is the walk from #15 green to #16 tee. Looking at the sweep of 15 green from the tee is magnificent.

#16 green to #18 tee.

But these good walks can't eliminate the memory all the bad walks. These baduns really distract from the flow of the course. Tis a real shame.

Ciao

Sean

« **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2005, 08:59:01 PM »

Only the couple of long green to tee walks. They really are awfu, and if you're walking and your playing partners are riding there is lot of sitting waiting for the weird English guy.. Other than that, maybe TD's comments are valid, but I particularly like the downhill 100 yarder where the green is possibly wider than the hole is long.
Why do some folk hate it? That ludicrous idea of 'Fair' maybe? And if you think it isn't fair that you can't go for every par 5 in two, you are just a moron, and you probably don't read this stuff anyway. I'm sure more than a few folk would find Prestwick contrived if someone were to design it these days..

« **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2005, 09:41:48 PM »

I love it tooand I'll take you all on one at a time or in a bunch to back it up!

« **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2005, 09:47:28 PM »

I thought the mound guarding the 4th was EXTREMELY severe...I can't recall any par 5 anywhere - maybe any hole anywhere - that had a mound that tall right in front of the green

as this was after I hit a career 5

- iron third to within 3 feet for a birdie

« **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2005, 09:51:42 PM »

The view from the opening tee, it looks like a pair of large breasts.

Well on second thought.... maybe that doesn't disgust me..... everything else seemed pretty OK......

« **Reply #8 on:** December 30, 2005, 10:02:11 PM »

Having just been there Tuesday, it is very fresh in my mind, and I dislike only two things. Neither disgusts me, however, because I just love the place.

1. The aforementioned walks between holes.

2. The 16th hole. However, IF I ever figure out what to hit off the tee, I could come to love this hole, because the shot to the green would be cool IF I could find the fairway.

Tom Doak,
We didn't have anything bounce through a green, including a thinned wedge by me on #1. In the cases where a green is particularly shallow, the tee is elevated and the green has enough back-to-front slope to hold appropriate shots.

I just love the place. I just love it.

« **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2005, 10:09:22 PM »

AG,

Did they have the bucket of apples waiting for you on the 16th tee...and didn't someone point out the smoke stack aiming point..

« **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2005, 10:24:14 PM »

There was no bucket of apples (I was chomping Trail Mix from Costco anyway), and I knew about the smokestack. What I didn't know was how much extra distance to factor in above the number in the yardage book (169) to carry the small mountain that the smokestack is on. It is uphill all the way, and I took an extra club; needed two or three. Plus, I hit a draw and I think it caught the curve of the small mountain and dribbled down the side so that my second shot was so blind that there weren't even any trees visible to line up on.

But I pick nits. I just love the place. I bought a hat and a shirt, and I NEVER buy a shirt and only rarely hats. I just love the place.

« **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2005, 10:34:46 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 30, 2005, 10:27:39 PM

Quote from: A.G._Crockett on December 30, 2005, 10:24:14 PM

But I pick nits. I just love the place. I bought a hat and a shirt, and I NEVER buy a shirt and only rarely hats. I just love the place.

Oh My God Man...don't tell me you were comped and this is some sort of tribute. I thought the logo was over done and took a pass on the shirt.

John, I'm a high school teacher and retired coach. I NEVER get comped ANYWHERE! The shirt was 35% off, but I paid cash for my round, yardage book, cart, range balls, hat, and shirt, as well as a hot dog and drink at the turn. The only thing that got comped was an extra souvenir drink cup that the lady behind the counter was kind enough to give me; I now have 4, total, and drink out of them year round, which pisses my wife off no end. Everybody at the table has a proper drinking glass and I'm drinking out of a plastic cup with a deer skull on it! But she loves me and goes on...

« **Reply #12 on:** December 30, 2005, 10:38:19 PM »

The fact that I haven't yet played it.

« **Reply #13 on:** December 30, 2005, 10:57:04 PM »

It was a long time ago, but I seem to recall 3 or 4 places where you took your life in your hands on a tee or getting to a tee. Sean mentioned going from 2 to 3. I also recall walking onto the 11th tee (I think) and having someone on the right side of #2 fairway aiming right a me to get to the green. I enjoyed the holes a lot, although 14 didn't do much for me, but I did feel unsafe out there.

I also remember that some people who I played with didn't like the blind green on #13.

« **Reply #14 on:** December 30, 2005, 11:08:42 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 30, 2005, 10:42:10 PM

Quote from: Mike Cirba on December 30, 2005, 10:38:19 PM
The fact that I haven't yet played it.

So..you don't take the time to play in Chicago or the Pinehurst region and you pretend to tell the world what are the great courses of our fine country....what is your problem man..

John,

No, but I take the time to play the mundane courses no one has ever heard of and then I'm generally able to recognize greatness when I see it.

Hopefully, I'll be able to correct the deficit you mentioned in the coming years.

« **Reply #15 on:** December 30, 2005, 11:20:02 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 30, 2005, 11:14:49 PM

Mike,

I'm sorry to pick on you..but don't you think that you and the other Golfweek raters who have not taken the time to see Tobacco Road have a moral obligation to see the course and correct the mistake made by previous visitors...With all that Mike gave to the game and all you guys take is it really so much to ask just to take a look. Sounds like you found time to play another stupid Fazio course just last week...You guys are hurting the game of golf by not including Tobacco Road at $60 in your top 100 modern. I'm not a sentimental guy, but now is the time.

John,

I'm not sure how much sentimentality should play a part in the analysis of any course but I would agree with you based on many recommendations that Tobacco Road is a course I should see and I hope to do so in the next 12 months.

« **Reply #16 on:** December 30, 2005, 11:25:33 PM »

btw, John...Wachesaw is surely not "just another stupid Fazio course" and I almost always enjoy seeing his work.

The fact that Mike Strantz was heavily involved there (as well as Wild Dunes, Wade Hampton, Black Diamond and others) probably just proves that adage that the definition of a great boss is someone who hires and nutures talented staff.

« **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2005, 11:26:07 PM »

The ten minute tee times. Darn it, space the groups out so it plays faster. Even if it costs more in green fees.

« **Reply #18 on:** December 30, 2005, 11:56:49 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 30, 2005, 11:45:13 PM

Where would the Oscars be without sentimentality...It plays a huge role in rankings. Of course, everybody needs to get out to Sebonack so Jack and Tom get there due and the golfing American public knows where to play...

John,

Again, I'm not sure how Jack and Tom play into your point about sentimentality but as much as I'd likely enjoy seeing Sebonack, I doubt they really need my recommendation to play there.

« **Reply #19 on:** December 31, 2005, 09:33:10 AM »

Mike:

I'm glad you are quoting John in your posts since someone else seems to be deleting them before I see them! I think we should quit calling him Barney and start calling him Trotsky.

« **Reply #20 on:** December 31, 2005, 10:31:28 AM »

Is it possible John's gone off his meds again?

« **Reply #21 on:** December 31, 2005, 11:12:07 AM »

Quote from: Bill_McBride on December 31, 2005, 10:31:28 AM

Is it possible John's gone off his meds again?

Bill,

Lets try to stay on topic...what didn't you like about Tobacco Road..I thought I saw you frowning a time or two..

« **Reply #22 on:** December 31, 2005, 11:17:55 AM »

Two things I didn't like about TR:
1) The silly mound in front of 13 green.
2) The blind 2nd into 18.

« **Reply #23 on:** December 31, 2005, 11:29:57 AM »

I really enjoyed my round there this year.

Not enough walking paths, the allignment on the 7th tee with trees blocking the centerline and the catch basins were my dislikes.

« **Reply #24 on:** December 31, 2005, 11:30:13 AM »

The bbq sandwiches in the pro shop

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