[Tim Bert]

I have never had the opportunity to play CPC, but I've read several articles or reviews that comment on the lack of quality of #18.

I've seen a few photos, and it doesn't stand out to me as looking like a particularly poor golf hole.

Is this really a bad hole, or is it simply the worst hole on a great golf course?  Does it only stand out as the least interesting hole on the course because it is the final hole and it follows three whoppers?  If the exact hole fell somewhere else in the routing would it still stand out as the weakest link?

Can those of you that have had the privilige to play the course chime in with personal opinions?  

[Eric Franzen]

The 18th at Cypress Point Club was not intented to offer the same width of strategic possibilities as the other holes.

If a match is still alive when you reach the 18th then this is a hole that might dictate the final outcome. It is quite tight and demands both a well placed tee shot and a good approach.

In my humble personal opinion the hole has a really nice green complex and a lot of charm.


The approach


From the back of the green

[PThomas]

I was pleasantly surprised by it, as I expected some really stupid hole after reading so much bad about it...it is a hard hole, I thought, a tough drive followed by an uphill approach..lots of trees to get in the way of both shots..you can even have your second get stuck up in tree by the green if you're not careful

[ForkaB]

It's a tree-infested claustrophobic golf hole with a diabolically fast green.  Far too hard for mere mortals.  Brilliant if your ideas of fun on an 18th includes getting continuously beat over the head with wet noodles....

My prediction is that by 2020, this hole will be held up by GCA v 3.2 as the epitome of Mackenzie's genius.

[Mike Hendren]

This hole would not stand out on ANY golf course.  At least they filled in the bunkers in the trees.

Have at it, you apologists.

Merry Christmas.

Mike

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Season Greetings to you humbug Hendren lol I actually love the green complex. It is one of the best on the course to me. The short game requirements are strong. It was probably a good hole 70 years ago before the trees got so tall. There is just a lack of landing area off the tee which allows for a traditional shot to the green. I think 75% of the time I am punching or running a 4 to 6 iron up there. The moment after finishing the hole with removal of the hat and a handshake provides for one of the best views and moments in golf. Now my bitch as a flatlander is that climb up the hill to the green. lol Merry Christmas everybody

[Jordan Wall]

Remember a 'bad' hole at Cypress Point is a 'great' hole at many other really good courses

[ForkaB]

Not true in this case, Jordan.  Try again.

[Bob_Huntley]

If one of the lesser liked architects of the GCA had designed this hole, they would have been mercillessly ridiculed and harangued by their detractors. MacKenzie does it, and as bad a hole as it is, gets a free ride.

I just don't get it.

Bob

[PThomas]

Bob - as stated above I have far too much experience with the trees around the green...if they did some thinning out, do you think that would be good enough, or are there other parts of the hole you don't like?  

[Rick Shefchik]

Okay, then the question is obvious: What if they cut down the trees?

I've seen very few holes that wouldn't be improved by at least judicious tree removal, and many that would be just as good if not better if they chainsawed every last one of 'em.

I think the group opinion here is that 18 would be a better hole if they took some trees out. Could it be a good hole if they took out some, or all, of the trees?

[Mike Benham]

I think the group opinion here is that 18 would be a better hole if they took some trees out. Could it be a good hole if they took out some, or all, of the trees?

Assuming that you are leaving the tee box and green as current, then removing all the trees would make the hole consistant with the remainder of the course where the trees aren't the hazard as they are on this hole.  

Removing all the trees would make the tee shot easier but increase the options off the tee and the resulting approach shot.

In reviewing the aerial HERE , leaving the tree 30-yards short and left of the green would be a decent alternative.  Clear out all other trees and the option off the tee would be anything from a 190 yard to 260 yards shot with varying degrees of sidehill/uphill approach shots.

[Brian Noser]

Does anyone have a pic from the tee? it looks to set up very weird from tha back tee behind 17. To me it looks like with some tree removal it could play almost straight is this correct? But the fairway looks to have a severe dogleg. to me if you remove the trees on the left you open up the hole and solve some of the problems.

Mike, I do not like the tree short left of the green I think you could remove that and it would change the hole perspective of the hole with out any other removal

[Tim Bert]

The aerial was helpful for me.  From the picture of the approach, I thought that this hole played as a dogleg left (mostly because of the tree dangling out.)  Now that I see it is actually a dogleg right, it appears to me to be a very demanding hole requiring great control of both your tee shot and approach.

Where does it rank amongst the other holes on the course in terms of difficulty?

It sounds like a lot of people here hate that tree.  Are there other issues as well, or is it primarily the tree?

[A_Clay_Man]

then removing all the trees would make the hole consistant with the remainder of the course where the trees aren't the hazard as they are on this hole.  

Mike, My take may a bit of a stretch... A similar quandry exists, for the virgin, on several tee shots. Agreed they aren't all caused by trees, save for the first tee shot, and, if one goes right on 14, but the same question, of where to go?, are dominate in the first timer's mind.
It's more of an optical illusion than a real hinderance to execution.

[Bill_McBride]

Some of the recent planting of evergreens at CPC seems a bit willy nilly.  Notice the examples by the trees closest to the tee of #18.  There is also a little grouping short right of #10 green that seemed really unnecessary.

[Mike Benham]

Mike, I do not like the tree short left of the green I think you could remove that and it would change the hole perspective of the hole with out any other removal

The only strategy off the tee is picking the correct distance and if you are 10-20 yards to far, that tree will change the way you play your approach shot.

Removing that tree would make the preferred landing zone bigger and the approach shot one dimensional.

If all the trees and shrubs on the left side going up the hill (between the fairway and clubhouse) and this area remained fairway, then the possibility exists that golfers could hit there tee shots too far (while still being in the fairway) and not have the best approach to the green (side-hill, up-hill, etc.).  Not many holes are designed where you can hit your tee shot too far ...

[Brian Noser]

 One or the other should be addressed according to this site . The driveing area should be larger or the tree removed. If you remove the trees that run in between the 17th and 18th fairway on the left how much would this change.  does it open it up any, or like you said mike does it just pose the problem of in the fairway with still no shot?

As for the tree left I just think that if I am hitting to that small of a target I should get some reward of have a clear shot at the green. I guess the opposite would be true if the drive was widened it would force you to pick a spot but not be so claustrophbic, and the tree would not be a problem for me.

Who knows what the right answer is, I will probally never play there to see it first hand so it is all speculation at this point.  

[John Kirk]

I agree with Rich and Tim completely.  Thanks for the pictures.  The one and only day I watched the Crosby tournament at Cypress (20 years ago), the pros I followed were just trickling their putts down the hill to make pars.

Look at those trees.  The cypress trees are a big reason Cypress is so great.  Most beautiful trees on the west U.S. coast, I'd say.  

[Marty Bonnar]

I wish I had taken a pic from the Tee, because as I remember, at 5'9" or so, all I could see were three or four dead cypresses in front of me and NO fairway grass at all, except for the distant green surround away off and up to the right.

To make matters worse, the Caddie says: "Aim over the top of that left tree". Aiming over a tree, how un-GCA can you get?

Now, try as I might, I simply couldn't make myself do this, because I knew where the green was and in my mind's eye, it wasn't OVER THERE!

Consequently, I duffed my drive about 80 yards and ended up having to make a miracle three-wood cutting the corner up to the green edge to end up with a three-putt 5.

Yes, it is a 'rubbish' Hole compared with the (at least) five preceding masterpieces, but it certainly doesn't spoil the 'experience'.

FBD.

[John Kirk]

It's 335 yards.  Can't you just hit a 3-iron, then punch a 9-PW up the hill?  Or do you have to fly a tree with a 5-wood?

[Brian Noser]

Martin thanks for the visual. I wondered how the hole looked from the tee cause I, unlike you have not had the privlage of seeing it. I do not think that that hole would ruin it but what do I know? From the looks of it though it could use a little care in removing some shrubary.

[Mike Benham]

It's 335 yards.  Can't you just hit a 3-iron, then punch a 9-PW up the hill?  Or do you have to fly a tree with a 5-wood?

Yes on the first part but it is quite a bit uphill for your second so it might be more than a 9 or PW.

However, it you hit a 3i to the long and to the left side of the fairway, then the tree on the left overhangs the fairway and you might have to hit something low and drawing.

I when I mention clearing the trees left, I mean from the outside of the dogleg to the green.  The trees on the left for the first 200 yards are a non-strategy issue.

[Brian Noser]

Ok I see I am starting to get a better picture now.Mike could you just hit driver to the base of the tree and just take it out of play all together? I did not realize the hole was so short. Now it is not a big deal.  A little trimming would be ok, if I am just haveing to hit an iron off the tee.

I should retract all my statments.

Play on!!

[Jordan Wall]

at least its an original hole

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