Philadelphia Area help!

« **on:** December 13, 2005, 09:59:51 PM »

This coming summer two of my friends and I will be making our first journey to the great northeast for golf. I've played pretty much everything in the southeast of any merit and I'm very excited about this opportunity to experience this great city. I won a round of golf at Merion from an online auction that was advertised here on the site. Its been a dream of mine to play Merion and I really can't explain the excitement I'm feeling. The first question I have is when is the best time of year for the best conditions and what are some of the must play courses excluding Pine Valley and Merion. I'm pretty sure we are gonna have some access as far as private is concerned. I'm very excited to hear from everyone as I know there are alot of guys from this area so if there is anything anyone would like to add please feel free to do so.

Thanks
Lawrence

« **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2005, 11:36:57 PM »

Depending on spring rainfall, most courses are in top shape from early to mid May through the end of June and then the humidity sets in. My club had greens at 12' in May and June and then they were brought down in July and August. The private must plays depend on what you want to see. Flynn courses abound-Huntingdon Valley, Rolling Green,Manufacturers, Lehigh in Allentown and Lancaster. Ross is represented by Aronimink restored by Pritchard and LuLu restored by Forse. Thomas did Whitemarsh Valley. Tillinghast modified by Flynn did Cricket Club's Flourtown.On the modern side, Doak did Stonewall's 2 courses. Hanse did Applebrook and French Creek. Hurdzan/Fry did Cricket Club's Militia Hill course.Weed did White Manor and the public Glen Mills. And then there is GMGC. Tom Paul will advise as to who did what there.

In NJ,here are the must plays: C&C's Hidden Creek,Fazio's Galloway, Flynn's (modified by Doak) Atlantic City and the public Twisted Dune done by sometimes poster Archie Struthers.
I'm sure there will some more input.

Let us know when you visit and I'm sure we can put together a gathering of locals to direct you to some cheesesteaks,

« **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2005, 07:42:43 AM »

Lawrence-

Steve did an excellent job of summarizing some of the better golf in the region. To that list, I'd add Phila CC, another by Flynn. It is just a few miles from Merion. In fact, if you have not played any Flynn courses, it would be well worth the effort if you have the connections.

« **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2005, 08:02:07 AM »

Ooops...how could I forget the venerable Philadelphia CC?

Also, take a look at Ran's review of Findlay's Walnut Lane profiled here.http://www.golfclubatlas.com/walnutlane1.html One of the major plusses about WL is that D'Allessandro's cheesesteak emporium is across the street.

« **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2005, 08:16:04 AM »

I would add Torresdale-Frankford to the Ross list and Scotland Run to New Jersey.

I find late Sept. , Oct. and even early Nov. as the best around Philly. As long as you watch the aeration calendar.

« **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2005, 10:24:37 AM »

Agree on both Torresdale Frankford and Walnut Lane. Both
shortish, old courses that are a lot of fun.

« **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2005, 10:43:27 AM »

While I would reccomend Dalesandro's if I was coming to the Philly for the first time, I would not reccomend Walnut Lane. Especially if you are able to access some of the privates. Walnut Lane may be a fine course, but come on guys, its not in the same league as 80% of the privates and if you only have a few days I wouldn't play Walnut Lane. Start with the Flynn's, Philly Country, Huntingdon Valley, Rolling Green, then perhaps Stonewall, Aronimink, or Philly Cricket. If you would like to play White Manor, please IM me.

Jason

« **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2005, 11:01:46 AM »

Take note that Lawrence said he was coming to the northeast so lets not forget the many many other remarkable courses in other parts of PA and NY and all through New England. Naturally, without knowing how much time he and friends will have, there is, believe it or not, other worthy experiences besides the Philly region and a couple sprinkled highlights in NJ.

I'll let you "golf guys" take it from here with suggestions of actual course names and architects.

« **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2005, 11:12:27 AM »

Quote from: Lawrence Largent on December 13, 2005, 09:59:51 PM

This coming summer two of my friends and I will be making our first journey to the great northeast for golf. I've played pretty much everything in the southeast of any merit and I'm very excited about this opportunity to experience this great city. I won a round of golf at Merion from an online auction that was advertised here on the site. Its been a dream of mine to play Merion and I really can't explain the excitement I'm feeling. The first question I have is when is the best time of year for the best conditions and what are some of the must play courses excluding Pine Valley and Merion. I'm pretty sure we are gonna have some access as far as private is concerned. I'm very excited to hear from everyone as I know there are alot of guys from this area so if there is anything anyone would like to add please feel free to do so.

Thanks
Lawrence

Lawrence:
Rolling Green, Aronimink, Huntington Valley, Torresdale-Frankfurt are must. As are the others listed.
Best
Dave

« **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2005, 11:27:16 AM »

Jason-you are right, Walnut is not in the same league as any of the other courses mentioned on this thread. I certainly would not put it real high on recommended list if access to all of these private clubs is an option. It's still enjoyable, though.

« **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2005, 02:24:37 PM »

Lawrence,

I would add Wilmington De. to the discussion. It is 35 mi. south of Phila. This means adding Wilm. CC , DuPont, Bidermann, and Fieldstone to the equation.

Here is my geographical breakdown. The airport sits on the southern border of the city. Merion and PVGC are probably about equidistant from Center City (that's our downtown). Merion to the west; PVGC to the east.

Merion , Philly Country , Aronimink, Rolling Green , Gulph Mills, White Manor, Llanerch (worth mentioning), Glen Mills , and Applebrook are west of the Schuylkill River , which runs roughly along the city line.

Philmont (also worth mentioning), Philly Cricket, Whitemarsh, Lulu, Manny's, Huntingdon Valley,and Torresdale are east of the river mostly north of the city.

Pine Hill (also worth mentioning) and Scotland Run are near PVGC. Further east is Atlantic City (an hour) , with Twisted Dune , Galloway, and Hidden Creek just short of the shore.

Lehigh is approx. an hour up the turnpike and Lancaster is hour+ west on the turnpike.

French Creek and Stonewall are in the "ruburbs" , somewhere in God's Country west of town.

« **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2005, 02:53:20 PM »

Is Inniscrone still original or has it been "improved" yet?

« **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2005, 03:06:44 PM »

If Inniscrone is available I would add it to the Wilm. De. area list.

« **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2005, 04:53:34 PM »

Don't forget about Cobb's Creek. It might not hold up to the esteemed list that has already been provided (which I whole-heartedly agree with) but it might be a fun combination with your round at Merion. Both were designed by Hugh Wislon, the courses are only a few miles apart, and I think you'd enjoy seeing the similarities & differences between the two. However, Cobb's doesn't hold up well under rainy conditions and its conditioning is always hit or miss.

The only other course in the immediate Philadelphia area that was not specifically mentioned is another Hugh Wilson course... the West Course at Merion. Fun and quirky, it should not be overlooked.

« **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2005, 07:17:29 PM »

There are so many great courses in the Philadelphia area that have already been mentioned and they're all worth playing. The only addition I can make is Bidermann, an excellent Dick Wilson course on the back end of the Winterthur estate. It's hard to gain access to though.

« **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2005, 08:35:24 PM »

Quote from: Mike Cirba on December 14, 2005, 02:53:20 PM

Is Inniscrone still original or has it been "improved" yet?

www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2004/07/05/story2.html

Hopefully this link works.

I hope they don't do any wholesale "improvements" to the course itself. Last time I was there, the pro spoke of potential changes on # 10 (change to a par 3??) etc. I have not heard
about the current status as this article appears to be a bit dated.

At least it sounds like the club is on more stable financial footing.

« **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2005, 09:35:58 PM »

I would like to thank everyone for their help and recommendations. I really can't explain how excited we are about coming up. We are really looking toward the early to middle part of June to come up and we should be in philly for about 4 days. I've been watching the U.S Am that i've taped for about a month just trying to ready myself for what i'm about to experience. My friends and I would love to meet up with some fellow GCA guys for drink if anyone is interested.

« **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2005, 09:39:51 PM »

As far as Flynn courses go I had the pleasure of playing Indian Creek this past Feb. and I was blown away with the bunkering and green complexes. The locker room was pretty special also. So i'm definitely excited to maybe see some more of Flynn's work.

« **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2005, 08:55:13 AM »

Lawrence,

While there are some excellent others around here (Aronimink, Hidden Creek, LuLu, Gulph Mills,Torresdale-Frankford (so I've been told), White Manor (Weed) and others) it may be easy to understand why I would suggest making this 4-day trip to Philadelphia as a chance to see a lot of Flynn in his backyard.

I am pleased that you enjoyed Indian Creek. It is one of the finest clubs in America on many levels. The Fatio clubhouse and Flynn course compliment each other in their levels of architectural sophistication. Hopefully your interest in Flynn will be furthered by your trip to Philly.

I don't know where you hail from or what your connections are but if you're physically capable of playing 36-a-day and have the wherewithall to make arrangements, assuming 4 days of golf and a long commute to Philadelphia, I would do this given staying at a hotel near Philadelphia CC (Marriott in Conshohocken for instance):

Day 1: Philadelphia Country Club (to get acclimated to Flynn and Philadelphia--get yourself a cheesteak afterwards)
Day 2: Manufacturers then Huntingdon Valley (27 holes) for 45 holes if you're up to it, you'll be happy you did
Day 3: Get up early and drive to Lehigh and play Merion West on your return to Philadelphia area
Day 4: Rolling Green then Merion East (save the best for last)

email me to discuss further. We can have a follow-up phone conversation.

« **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2005, 09:01:39 AM »

Lawrence,

I see you're from Tennessee. Well, I think the schedule I devised is pretty good considering. Since there's precious little Flynn (only 40 or so originals left) and no Flynn courses between you and Florida to the south and Virginia to the north (well, there's a nine-holer in Plymouth, NC) take the opportunity to see some Flynn. Then when the Flynn book comes out next year, you'll have lots to look at

« **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2005, 09:48:06 AM »

Wayne-
Are you in a position where you can give us any more specific updates on the book?

« **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2005, 10:07:35 AM »

Yes, Craig. Right now the manuscript is 99.75% complete now that Steve Rockefeller completed his additions to my chapter on Pocantico Hills Golf Course on their family estate near Tarrytown, NY. The only thing left to do is complete the history of CC Harrisburg of which there is little known. John Traugh (sp?) is helping Tom and I with this and that shouldn't take long at all to incorporate. The manuscript is in the editor's hands (at 643 pages it is probably going to be cut in the commercial version but we hope to have an unabridged limited edition 2-volume set) and we need to see how that progresses and start doing the layout of drawings and photos with the text. I hope that is completed no later than the second quarter of 2006 and the book is out this time next year. That is my hope. Our deadline for the manuscript is June 2006 so we are well ahead of schedule.

« **Reply #22 on:** December 15, 2005, 10:32:04 AM »

Wayne-
I can only imagine how many countless hours have gone into this project--what a huge undertaking. Good luck!

« **Reply #23 on:** December 15, 2005, 11:08:13 AM »

Craig,

It has been a five year effort so far, equalling the time that Jim Finegan put in for his comprehensive history of golf in Philadelphia. If our book is nearly as good, I'll be very pleased indeed. Jim has been intimately aware of our work and he believes strongly in the results and that our depth of coverage and research standards are superlative. I hope he's right.

« **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2006, 10:09:52 PM »

Well guys let the excitement begin. May. 18-21 will be the dates I'll be up in the Philly area. Merion I know for sure on the 18th 8 a.m. tee time hoping to play 36 on the East if not were doing 18 on the west in the afternoon. I'll be getting in touch with the guys or PM'ed me and emailed me in the next week. I hope a bunch of us can get together for a drink and a cheesesteak. If anyone else has any suggustions please feel free to speak.

Lawrence

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