Haven't seen the announcement yet.

But why is this hypocritical?  I'd say rather it proves the point I was trying to make when we discussed this when the announcement of the rule change came out - it's a LOCAL rule, intended to be limited.  It helps courses with carts with GPS, because it's a pain in the ass to turn such off in competitive play.  For those courses inclined to allow bushnells and other GPS devices, it gives them an out.  But it was never intended to be allowed for top-level competitive play.

I hate being so right all the time, it is a burden.

 

AGC - read it, think about it.  It makes sense in my universe, and it ought to in yours.

LOCAL rule, intended to be limited.  Practical.  But no intent for use in highest level of competition.

Makes perfect sense to me....

Jamie - that's another point I tried to make in the last discussion - one few would buy - where were you then, man?

 

Damn right, those bushnells are NOT as simple and easy to use as some seem to think, as they argued that they would become pervasively used by all golfers.  My take was no way, lots will give them up when they see what a pain they can be.  But yes, most importantly they would also often add to slow play issues competitively - which is why I hoped - and argued that it made sense - that the local rule be used as intended, and that they NOT become universally used.

TH

Jamie:

EXACTLY!

That's what I tried to tell them here before.  I use them
for course rating, and they are absolutely more trouble
then they are worth.  It takes a lot of experience and
skill to hit one's target first try each time, and even then
wind can complicate things, as you say.

I am right with you in that I hope the local rule remains very limited in use.  I really think it will be.  Today's USGA announcement is indeed great news.

TH

Rich:

Very true. But bushhells are the smallest, handiest, cheapest, most likely to be used.  They're also the devices most likely to cause slow play.

So sure, other devices (GPS related) do exist, and may proliferate.  BUT aye, here's the rub:  if they are good enough, they will not slow play at all.  There's nothing wrong with allowing their use.  One can already do so in casual play, and if local or club events want to allow them, then more power to them.

It just remains very difficult to distinguish between them and bushnells for purposes of rule making.

Therefore it seems to me to make the most sense to make the local rule apply to ALL devices.  Sure this throws out a little baby with the bathwater, but there's no better way to do it.

And the bottom line remains that all it takes is for any course, or tournament committee, to invoke the local rule if they wish.  As I say, at the many courses with GPS-equipped carts who host competitions, it just makes sense to allow such to be left on.  Too many odditities have happened already at such courses.  And that's just one small example.

It's also just good policy NOT to allow them at the highest levels.  They don't need the help, and it's also not a good example to set.

No?

TH

Tom

What will happen will happen.

I think these devices will be fully legal eventually, but 3 years from now or 303 years?  I don't know.  The USGA is clearly leaving the door open.  Let's just wait and see.

Rich:

Of course time does march on, and one never knows what will occur, nor is there much of anything guys like us can do about it.

I just do feel today's announcement is good, proper, logical.

And I'm still waiting for you to come up with a doable routing of my dream Pebble Beach area course.  

 

Quote from: JSlonis on November 10, 2005, 12:31:23 PM

Rich,

I think the majority of the devices are the "point & Shoot" variety. For example: Bushnell, Nikon, Pinseeker.

The handheld GPS units are the alternative, and while they are much easier to use, I think far less people have access to them.

Yes, Jamie, I know.  But times do change.

PS--just curious, but what takes more time--"shooting" distances or pacing off distances using a course guide?

Rich,

Overall, I think I could pace distances off a yardage marker quicker than most could laser a flagstick.  My hands are usually quite still, but it's a pain in the butt sometimes to get an accurate reading with those things.

I do agree...times do change.  eventually we'll all be given a pocketsize GPS unit on the first tee that will be able to track us all over the course.

"mmmmm...certainly seems as if one could argue this is hypocritical...doens't it?"

Why would you say it's hypocritical? Do you think the "One Ball" Rule which is also a "Local Rule" is hypocritical too? The "One Ball" Local Rule has been around for years and no one seems to have ever said it was a hypocritical thing to have put into Appendix I (Local Rules; Conditions of Competition) section of the Rules book to be used or not by "Tournament Committees".

What is the rationale behind allowing them at all?

Tom Paul:  could just be me, but seems when an organization says it's okay to use a device then prohibits them from its own events, there's at least some disconnect there

if they don't want their competitors to use them then why should they, the game's governing body, allow them elsewhere???

I know what you're saying Huck....IMHO, I just think it would have been better for them not to allow them at all...they way it is now just seems half-assed to me