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Kirk Gill

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Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« on: September 13, 2005, 11:10:35 AM »
I had the opportunity to take a look at the work going on at Colorado Golf Club last week, and thought I would share some impressions and a few photos.

I had the pleasure of being introduced to the property by Ric Buckton of Redstone Intl. Inc., one of the primary developers. He graciously took the time to show me the site from top to bottom, and provided a lot of insight on the entire development, not just the golf course itself. Ric is a golf course designer in his own right – with courses such as Rio Grande in South Park, Colorado and collaborations with Jay Morrish at Vista Ridge near Denver and Pine Canyon near Flagstaff, Arizona to his design credit.

First of all – the property. Colorado Golf Club is built on rolling terrain that includes both ponderosa pine forest and open meadow on the valley bottom. The soil was described to me as a “sandy loam.” C&C moved hardly any dirt at all to construct the course (in two cases ridges had to be cut down a bit to provide driving corridors). Almost no trees were cut down during construction – instead they were boxed and moved for use either at strategic points on the course or for clubhouse/housing areas. Thus there will be no “nursery-size” trees on the property making it look too new. The scorecard of the course is as follows:

Hole   Par   Back Tees
1   5   632
2   3   152
3   4   432
4   4   505
5   4   477
6   3   261
7   5   575
8   4   323
9   4   486
Front   36   3,864
10   4   466
11   3   210
12   4   520
13   4   407
14   4   359
15   5   583
16   5   560
17   3   206
18   4   481
Back   36   3,793
Total   72   7,656


It was a good time to visit the course for a GCA geek like myself because the holes were at a variety of different stages in the construction process. Some holes were grassed in and growing, others had been seeded, others had holes in the ground  where the greens will be, and one, the 18th, was only discernable because the natural grasses had been mowed down.

The fairways looked fairly wide and inviting, but the course was described to me as one that had to be “played from the edges.” No real rough is planned – there will be minimal first cuts around the fairways immediately giving way to natural grassland. The 3.5 million dollar irrigation system features sprinkler heads that are individually controlled, and the goal is firm and fast conditions.

I believe that I have correctly identified the pictures below, but since I was not taking notes, I may have mixed something up. I will correct if necessary.

The second green. Very small, surrounded by bunkers. The greensite is just a dirt hole at this point, and the drainage is going in. Next, a layer of gravel, then sand. You can see the intended bunker locations.



A slightly closer view of the 2nd.



Here’s a picture from the 3rd green back up the fairway. The downhill fairway means a hanging lie, and the large waste-area type bunker in front of the green will be getting a lot of action. Shots landing on the middle of the green may just roll off the back. There’s a small false front on the green. There’s a lot more work to be done in that waste area, but it’s already pretty intimidating.



Here’s the green complex at the 5th hole, a long par four.



Here’s the sixth hole from the tee. Shots off that little hill to the right will feed onto the green.



This gives you a better idea of the scale of the bunkers short and left of the 6th green.



Here is a view of the 12th hole from the left side of the fairway. This green has been seeded.



A closer view of the 12th green. Not heavily contoured, Ric told me that there would be enough subtlety in this green to challenge tour pros.



The 14th hole from behind the green up the fairway. You can see that this is a “horseshoe” style green. The main dirt road on the old ranch used to go right up this fairway, and I guess Ben Crenshaw said that helped them “find” this hole. Note the grading marks spraypainted on the green.





Here is the 17th from the back tee. There will eventually be water on this hole once they allow water to flow down the main arroyo that cuts through the course.



Ric told me that it is the intention of this club to pursue a major championship. Time will tell on that score, but the course itself is being built with that in mind. It's certainly walkable, as every tee box is immediately adjacent to the previous green.


"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2005, 11:41:08 AM »
Kirk

Thanks for the pics. I saw some of the property during my visit to CO in early August but was unable to take a full tour due to time constraints. As we can see, this is an excellent property. There will be no housing on the golf course. The club will be a first class operation from the information that I have gathered.

Steve

P.S. The website with contact info is now up:

www.coloradogolfclub.com
« Last Edit: September 13, 2005, 11:43:55 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2005, 12:19:21 PM »
Bill

And the new #2 is?

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2005, 12:27:14 PM »
There will be no housing on the golf course.

You are correct. The housing that you can see in some of the pictures is the slums of the Pinery, where I live.  ;)
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2005, 05:28:21 PM »
An interesting scorecard ... only two short par-4's, three par-3's over 200 yards ... although I understand that everything plays a few percentage points shorter in Denver.

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2005, 06:20:34 PM »
Those yardages are from the tips, as you'd expect. From the Silver tees the total yardage is 7,258, from the Bronze 6,685, and from the Red tees it is 5,619.

I also failed to mention the nine-hole short course being built. It WILL wind through the housing area.

Early on in the development of the property Tom Fazio apparently came to take a look, and wanted to build on the much more heavily treed, much hillier north section of the property, which is where some of the housing is going in now. Ric said that building a course there would require a lot of earth moving and tree removal. Mr. Fazio reportedly said "If you want a Fazio course, it will be built there."

Ric and C&C liked the southern part of the property better.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

TEPaul

Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2005, 06:40:09 PM »
I've never seen the place but from, this time, architect Davis Love, and out of the blue, he said he felt this golf course couldn't miss, and that it would be one of the really great ones of America or the world. He was out there and looked at it. I think he mentioned who the architects were but I didn't really catch it. Something like Ben Crensh and Bill Coorshaw, or something like that. Whoever the hell they are it seems like they might have a tiger by the tail here. Who knows, maybe they will make a name for themselves with it.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 01:56:42 PM by TEPaul »

Chris Munoz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2005, 07:20:00 PM »
They have a great operation at this club, Landscapes Unlimited and a friend of mine is doing some work there.  Just spoke with him today and he says things are looking good there.  He said its a great climate for grass growing.  Does anyone know the temps there, an average????

Muni
Christian C. Munoz
Assistant Superintendent Corales
PUNTACANA Resort & Club
www.puntacana.com

Scott Witter

Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2005, 08:53:17 AM »
I find it interesting/strange that C&C would feel it necessary to have their putting surfaces shot with grade markings to such a detailed level. I would have thought by now, given the intuitive nature of how they work, and to me rightly so, and given the amount of putting surfaces they have seen and built, they would have enough knowledge/trust and confidence in their eyes/shapers to make a solid on-site call on putting slopes.

Gregg Vincent

Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2005, 01:54:23 PM »
Thanks for the pics and the info Kirk.

Do you have any info on the "business model" of the club? I suspect that their desire for a major championship and the planned housing gives some clues.

Thanks again,

Gregg

TEPaul

Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2005, 01:59:29 PM »
"For real?"

redanman:

I dunno---maybe he's just pretending.  ;)

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2005, 03:14:21 PM »
There will be 377 memberships total, with the initiation fee currently at $75,000. There will also be 88 "national" memberships at $200,000. For those members, 11 cottages will be built for them to use while in town. As for real estate, the literature I have says that there will be 35 maintenance free homes around a lake and 135 custom homesites with lots from 1-5.9 acres going for $375,000 - 900,000.

Memberships are 30-year refundable license. The hope is for member ownership once the club "matures and stabilizes financially."

Sorry if I'm sounding like an advertising brochure, but that is essentially what I'm quoting. I hope that this is the "business model" info that you're looking for, Gregg.

Given that previous to this development there was a proposal to put 3,000 homes plus retail on that beautiful land (and right next to my house), needless to say I'm gushing a bit over how things turned out.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Gregg Vincent

Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2005, 06:36:44 PM »
Thats exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Kirk!

Gregg

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (some pics)
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2005, 08:34:31 AM »
Gregg

Re further analysis of the business model:The 11 members cottages will be built one at a time after a group 8 national memberships are sold. This will fund the building of the cottages. 8x200K=1.6M. Assuming 75K for each membership, that leaves 1M to build a cottage. Or, without the assumption, that leaves 1.6M for the cottage.Some cottage. Pretty good deal for the developer!

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

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