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Ben Voelker

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Elevation's true effect on distance
« on: September 07, 2005, 07:05:42 PM »
I was wondering if anyone who has experience playing at high altitudes has an idea of what the true difference in distance is.  I've always heard 2% more distance for every 1000 feet of elevation typically, but have also heard more recently that this might not be right.  Any ideas?
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cary lichtenstein

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Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2005, 07:13:25 PM »
Ben:

I've had a whole summer of playing in the high altitudes of Colroado. Here is what I have learned:

Height: The higher you hit the ball, the further it goes. My 8 iron, 145 goes 160 at 8000 feet, 155 at 6500 feet. I hit a high iron

My wife, who hits a low iron, gets about 5% more distance at 8000.

I would say 10% for a man at 8000, maybe 13 to 15% at 9500 at the Summit in Vail at the top of Cordillera
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2005, 07:24:23 PM »
Due to the lack of humidity at altitude, don't you also get more roll as well ?
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John_Conley

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Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2005, 08:18:16 PM »
Quasssi is absolutely right.  After one round at Sanctuary with Jim Engh I laugh at anyone who tells me 10% or whatever.  If you don't carry it far it won't help at all.  If you carry it a long way it might be more, especially off elevated tees.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2005, 08:24:26 PM »
John Conley,

When I played Cherry Hills the ball went farther in the air and on the ground.

The air is thiner and the ground seemed much dryer, and that combination is sure to produce substantively increased distance.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2005, 09:07:48 PM »
From the accounts I've received, it appears to be different for different players.

For the average-to-very good male player, my associates in Denver say they think they get 7 to 8% more distance than at sea level.
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Brad Klein

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Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2005, 09:20:07 PM »
For a driver with an average spin rate and launch angle, it's 1.7 percent of additional yarage per 1,000 feet of elevation change. That's 9 percent per mile, so that a standard 240 yard drive at sea level would travel 262 yards in Denver.

With higher spin rates and higher launch angles (which would also cover middle irons), the corresponding gain is reduced marginally, to about 7 percent. A 175-yard 5-iron at sea level would go about 187 in Denver.

I did a pretty detailed article on this in Golfweek in June 2003 that tried to factor in elevation, humidity and temperature.
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peter_p

Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2005, 09:47:28 PM »
What about age as a variable? When I was young I got the 7% elevation kick. Don't now. The ball's initial velocity certainly could have an effect.

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John_Conley

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Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2005, 10:06:46 PM »
Quote from: Brad Klein on September 07, 2005, 09:20:07 PM
For a driver with an average spin rate and launch angle, it's 1.7 percent of additional yarage per 1,000 feet of elevation change. That's 9 percent per mile, so that a standard 240 yard drive at sea level would travel 262 yards in Denver.

With higher spin rates and higher launch angles (which would also cover middle irons), the corresponding gain is reduced marginally, to about 7 percent. A 175-yard 5-iron at sea level would go about 187 in Denver.

I did a pretty detailed article on this in Golfweek in June 2003 that tried to factor in elevation, humidity and temperature.

Brad, I'm not trying to be an a-hole.  If a lady carries her tee shot 120 or a senior can slap it out there 165, do they see the same?  Your 9% in Denver would give a weak-hitting lady another 10 and the soft senior 15.  Is it really that much?  I haven't studied anything but it seems your test is expecting an awful lot of lift compared to someone that doesn't hit it very far.

On the flip, Engh KILLS it way beyond and 240 carry.  Does the scale "slide" to give that player even more than a stock 9%?
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Jason McNamara

Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2005, 01:21:04 AM »
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on September 07, 2005, 07:13:25 PM
Height: The higher you hit the ball, the further it goes. My 8 iron, 145 goes 160 at 8000 feet, 155 at 6500 feet. I hit a high iron

My wife, who hits a low iron, gets about 5% more distance at 8000.

Cary -

Is that high iron because you put a relatively large amount of spin on your iron shots?  The altitude should help those shots more.

Less backspin (or a more off-center hit) tends to not get as much help.

Question for Brad Klein:  I recall reading that there's a point at which the altitude bonus maxes out, and above that it diminishes.  Is that the case?

Jason
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Brad Klein

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Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2005, 01:35:32 AM »
Jason, I'm simplifying with those numbers. There is a declining effect, but it's marginal. believe me, I asked several physicists, plus the always elusive Frank Thomas, and their initial responses were a combination of the "well, it depends upon the variables" and "I can't give you a clear answer but I can certainly try to confuse and complicate the issue." My answer is simple but not wrong.
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TEPaul

Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2005, 06:39:10 AM »
Why don't we ask the USGA to give Iron Byron a weekend vacation in Denver so we can really determine elevation's true effect on distance?  ;)
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ForkaB

Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2005, 06:47:56 AM »
Quote from: TEPaul on September 08, 2005, 06:39:10 AM
Why don't we ask the USGA to give Iron Byron a weekend vacation in Denver so we can really determine elevation's true effect on distance?  ;)

Iron Byron doesn't travel well.  Can't make it through the security screen at most airports..... :'(
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Jason McNamara

Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2005, 02:06:07 AM »
Quote from: Brad Klein on September 08, 2005, 01:35:32 AM
Jason, I'm simplifying with those numbers. There is a declining effect, but it's marginal. believe me, I asked several physicists, plus the always elusive Frank Thomas, and their initial responses were a combination of the "well, it depends upon the variables" and "I can't give you a clear answer but I can certainly try to confuse and complicate the issue." My answer is simple but not wrong.

Brad -

Like John Conley, I'm not trying to be an a-hole either.

I appreciate the additional info, despite your targets' attempts at obfuscation.  :-)

Jason
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cary lichtenstein

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Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2005, 03:54:36 AM »
Bill:

I max'ed it out at The Summit in Vail at 9500 feet. I was laying up a 4 wood on their first par 5 and it landed in the middle of the green. Boy did I get some stares from the 4 some putting on the green.

Q
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Elevation's true effect on distance
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2005, 11:07:18 AM »
Quote from: Rich Goodale on September 08, 2005, 06:47:56 AM
Quote from: TEPaul on September 08, 2005, 06:39:10 AM
Why don't we ask the USGA to give Iron Byron a weekend vacation in Denver so we can really determine elevation's true effect on distance?  ;)

Iron Byron doesn't travel well.  Can't make it through the security screen at most airports..... :'(

He's a stubborn cuss. Won't take off his spikes, even with the politest request.
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