Played Arcadia Bluffs today, in perfect condition, lots of eye candy and lots of excellent golf. Just loved the course. In my top 20.

Better yet, I think the variety of bunkers, styles and execution is about as good a set of bunkers as I have ever seen, sod stacked faces, pots, hairy faces, etc.

Other comments?

Cary:

As it happens I stopped into Acardia just about a week ago following a brief visit to Crystal Downs and plans to play at Notre Dame for the first time.

Seeing Arcadia again re-inforced the view I had following my first visit to Arcadia several years ago:

the "variety" of bunker styles doesn't work; it just makes the place look like a mess.

Go around a CD or Notre Dame and you have a feeling of class. Arcadia, by contrast, comes across a course designed by a less talented architect who tried too hard and just wound up with something that doesn't work.

Mind you, the place is a commercial success, I'm told.

My two cents:

I think the things of Arcadia Bluffs are in the right places and if you could see them as just obstacles instead of styles they work very well.  I think stylistically they are a herky jerky mess with very little flow.  That said, I enjoy the course very much when I play it, but I try not to look too hard at it while I do.

Cheers!

JT

Tom:

I have 18 courses in my top 20, room for 2 more

Knocking out consensus top 20? naw, just my own, and I don't claim my top 20 are better than the consensus top 20, they are just the ones that turn me on and make me want to play em over and over again. For example, 2 top 20 of the consensus that I knowck out are Seminole and Pinehurst #2

My top 20 are sort of like your 31 flavors in my own way, as I play courses in the future, I will change the number upwards. I would think that I will end up with about 30 in total.

I don't have a top 5 or 10 because in my mind, because that would limit me too much. When people ask me what is my favor course, I can never answer that because my head just bursts with past experiences and I find it impossible to answer.

Also, my top 20 are not necessarily the best tests for tournament or championship play, I kind of think they fit my own game as well, as I have played some of these with higher handicaps and some are just too hard. Nor am I straight enough to enjoy over tight courses on a regular basis.





Cary

Cary:  Thanks for clarifying.  That puts a different light on things, although anyone's "personal top twenty" is heavily weighted by how many of the great courses they've actually played, and for most people here, I don't know what their sampling is.

I don't get to hide behind that shield because I have seen nearly all of the real top 100, so if I pick a top twenty I'm leaving out the real ones.  Hence the Gourmet's Choice with a slightly different set of rules to allow me some freedom to highlight some favorites without knocking back Shinnecock and Pebble Beach.

Confession:  I still have not played Arcadia Bluffs.  I've gone over there twice with tee times:  once it was pouring rain, and the other it was so cold and windy that players were walking off the course.  I walked the entire 18 on both occasions and wondered how playable it was when the wind is blowing, as it must be often, considering how similar the setting is to Crystal Downs.  So for those of you who loved it or didn't, my question:  was it windy when you were there?  Was it great in the wind, or just when it was relatively calm?

The day I played it was really not windy at all I would think compared to a normal day out there. The breeze was coming off the lake, however I don't think it could have been more than 10-15 at most. On such a calm day it was still very challenging but I thought also very playable. As a 3 hdcp I was playing great for about 11 holes before reality set in on the 12th tee (I'm probably not the first to have that happen there) and ended up with 78 which I was still pleased with (played abt 6600 I think). I think the design would allow for a reasonable amount of wind (although not having experienced it I can't say for sure), but I don't know how much fun it would be a in a 40 mph wind.

BTW Cary, I haven't travelled nearly enough to have a top 20.  That implies that I'd need to see a universe of at least 100 highly regarded courses, and then have a top 20%.  I figure I only have 5 courses I've played that I would put in my top 20.  Arcadia doesn't quite rise to that, but it is very good IMO.  So I have a long way to go...

I played Arcadia in a stiff 30 mph wind with an air temperature hovering around 40.  COLD but the course was enjoyable.  The last time out, mild breeze coming off the lake.

My question to those knocking the bunkering is this:  why do you feel things are a "hodge podge?"  The course is obviously very manufactured as to capture what I've been told is the look and feel of an Irish links.  It doesn't offend me in any way and creates interesting variety throughout the layout.  The mixture of sod walled bunkers and blow out bunkers add to that variety IMO.  I enjoy the course more with each playing.

Why do others feel differently?

Ken

, but I don't know how much fun it would be a in a 40 mph wind.

Last time I played it the weather station in the golf shop said 40mph, and the staff was guessing that it was blowing 50mph closer to the lake. I found it remarkably playable, even in those conditions from the tips. There's plenty of room to drive it, so you can make your way around fairly comfortably.

 I thought it was fun, and actually bettered the course rating by 4+ shots. Maybe that's why I didn't find the wind that much of a nuisance  

Matt & Ken,

The comments relative to the looks of the bunkers IS relevant in discussing the courses visual merit.  It is not relevant to its playability.  I enjoy playing the course very much.  I think the features are well placed and very functional to the round that is played there.  That said, I would prefer that either all of the bunkers were of the same style or that their location / placement in the course of a hole or on the greater landscape dictated their style.  I see no indication of an approach to the stylizing of various bunkers on the course and visually find it a messy look.  There may very well have been a well thought out plan, perhaps I don’t get it.  If there was such a plan I’d love to explore it for the sake of understanding the approach taken.  Remember I’m in a self imposed 12 step program to not be such an accountant type.

The fact that bunkering styles is one of the very few criticisms I have of the course should be considered a great compliment and I certainly hope it is taken as such.  I am sure there are those out there that feel AC would be better with flash sand, because they prefer flash sand, and they are certainly entitled to there opinion.  I think my bunkers would be awesome in stacked sod, but I can’t afford it.

The manufactured nature of construction exists on every site so that doesn't bother me at all.  Some blatant manufacturing even has an honest look to my minds eye.  Such as square tee pedestals or Raynor’s parallel lines.  If I were to nit pick Arcadia and make another comment it would be that I don’t care for the method they used in seeding their outer rough areas.  The CAT cleat tracks are impossible to hit out of but, I understand the cost savings over other erosion control methods.  At the end of the day these are pretty minor items that no ten of us could ever agree on about any course.

Cheers!

JT

Matt and Ken,
  In agreeance with Jim in what he says regarding the bunkering.....it would be like Sand Hills or Kingsley having stacked sod walled bunkers. I cannot think of a better way to compair it. Being a "Rick Smith/Warren Henderson" design, knowing now they have gone separate ways, maybe Warren did the blow out style bunker and Rick is responsible for the stacked sod wall.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Matt Ward:

I'm curious what you mean by "pushing too hard to find something".

The whole reason I go out of my way to play a golf course is to find something that provides pleasure. I'm not looking to find something bad; I'm hoping to find something good.

For me Arcadia was a disappointment. It simply lacks the grace a place like Notre Dame has, even though the latter site is less blessed with an attractive setting.

I don't see it as "petty" to ask an architect to get both strategy and aesthetics right. Henderson simply failed to do that, but it doesn't mean Arcadia is a bad course.

Andy,

I can only repeat what I've already said: Arcadia just looks like a mess to me because of what was done with the bunkers. By contrast, a place like Notre Dame has a grace and class to it because everything fits together so nicely.

For me mixing bunker styles just doesn't work, but obvviously there are some people for whom such things don't matter.