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Matt_Ward

I received about a week ago the Sept / Oct issue of Links and on the cover is a superb picture of Cape Kidnappers in New Zealand.

The issue provides no less than 10 full pages to an article by Jeff Neuman -- a former editor with Simon & Schuster of his trek to that very special island in the South Pacific.

Mr. Neuman accounts his one month journey to New Zealand and frankly I was taken aback by the scant two paragraphs he devotes to his narrative on Cape Kidnappers.

Here is a course that has literally put New Zealand on the golfing map -- with no disrespect to the other layouts like Kauri Cliffs and Paraparaumu, to name just two.

In his assessment Neuman is appreciative of what Kidnappers represents, but he does say the following, "The course is intended to play firm and fast, and errant shots quickly find thick knee-high rough, which makes ball-spotting difficult and recovery nearly impossible."

He then proclaims that the "CONSENSUS" of visiting golfers "SEEMS" to be the exact quote I used at the top pf this thread.

I mean who represents the "consensus" -- is this the author's way in encapsulating his own personal feelings? Or if there are such people why not a direct quote or comment with some of the holes mentioned on where the so-called desire not to return can be substaniated.

There is little real analysis -- no real pin pointing of certain holes and other unique features beside saying the wind at the site will "HOWL (his emphasis) a good percentage of the time."

Frankly, if I wanted "a what I did on my golf visit to New Zealand" and how I can provide so very little golf course detail I would think I would have find out in another generic travel / leisure publication -- not Links -- which incidentally has had a good run in its most recent issues.

Cape Kidnappers is clearly worth more than just two limited paragraphs and I would dare say that Links need to understand that its core readers are very much attuned to getting such info and not worrying about reading where the author slept and who he met with and if his play was so-so or otherwise. If you don't cover the former point -- the main course(s) then truly the latter is clearly inconsequential.

Be interested in other comments from those who may have read the article.

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0

.

Cape Kidnappers is clearly worth more than just two limited paragraphs and I would dare say that Links need to understand that its core readers are very much attuned to getting such info and not worrying about reading where the author slept and who he met with and if his play was so-so or otherwise. If you don't cover the former point -- the main course(s) then truly the latter is clearly inconsequential.

.

You hit the nail on the head with this statement and is exactly what I was thinking when I read this last night.

The article seemed as if it were written by a neophyte golfer with the "consensus" opinion formed by travellers, not golfers.  

I also yearned for more details regarding the course and wonder if the editor even glanced at the article before it was published. The editor is a member of a golfers golf club and would know that firm and fast with wind that "howls" is a good thing when evaluating the compelling nature of a golf course.

If one is on a golf trip the course needs to be paramount.    
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Yes it didn't seem he was a connoisseur and he seemed entertained by some meager courses and he didn't give you what you wanted....

I didn't read every word, but those that I did I appreciated, especially his depiction of how friendly everyone was.
to paraphrase:
"If you've been there for any period of time, and you haven't been invited into someones home.. there must be something wrong with you"

Golf writing isn't personal enough for me, and that bit was, and made me want to go.

(I already know enough about the courses from here)

« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 09:05:23 PM by Mike_Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Matt,

I may have the wrong person, but seem to recall talking with Jeff during my visit to Cape Kidnappers (as well as the other venues during the Ren Cup).

My recollection is that Jeff really never intended to do an article on "golf architecture". Rather, he wanted to write a story on a golf holiday in New Zealand.

So, I'm not surprised if his article didn't include much on the golf course itself.

As to the substance of his comment on Cape Kidnappers, on one level I can understand it: the venue itself is so dramatic that any architect risks the scenery capturing all the attention from the golf course. Hell, just the entrance to the place is amazing in its own right.

Then too, I don't feel that Tom Doak and his team led by Bruce Hepner even tried to upstage the property itself. Not at all. You get the feeling you are playing Cape Kidnappers, not a "Tom Doak course".

That said, I would like to go back to Cape Kidnappers and have the chance to play certain shots over again, including:

- the appoach on #4, where two good shots on this par 5 can leave an interesting little pitch to a green with lots of contour

- both the tee shot and approach on the par 4 #9.....both being a real test of placing one's shot

- the tee shot on what appears to be a simple short par 3 #13

- both the tee shot and approach on the modest length par 4 #14.....an interesting version of he Road Hole

- the long par 5 #15 (all 650 yards) that Chris Hunt proved you can play with a putter

- the go for it par 5 #16

- approach on #17

- both tee shot and approach on #18, with the former an excellent example of confusion......you just can't quite figure out where to aim your tee shot......and where left or right side of the fairway leave such different shots coming in



Tim Weiman

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Have not seen the article.  I seldom read LINKS anymore, actually.

Jeff is a great editor of books, but not a great golfer as I think he would be the first to point out.  He was at Cape Kidnappers in the windiest conditions I've seen there (in about 45 days on the hill), so I'm not surprised he had this view of the course ... others who played in our event did also.  Luckily, there are also a lot of people who have a different view of it!

Too bad they did not have him write about going on to Tasmania, because I think he enjoyed Barnbougle far more than Kidnappers.

peter_p

     Matt forgot to add the first sentence of the second paragraph, "That said, Cape Kidnappers is a must-stop on anyone's itinerary". Just thought I'd add some context. In fact, that is the only mention of the golf course in the 2nd paragraph, which is all about Napier and the B&B owned by his ex-dentist.
     Most courses are dispensed with in one paragraph, and there are few hole descriptions. This is golf trip in a passage piece. Between jobs, relationships and a home.
     The only real positive is citing John Lister setting up the itinerary through www.golfaustralianewzealand.com    

Mark_Guiniven


Put New Zealand on the golfing map? They're not even on the New Zealand map yet.

Matt_Ward

Gents:

I would have hoped that in writing about New Zealand golf the focus on what Cape Kidnappers has done to the overall landscape would have been worth more than two scant paragraphs that fail to delve into any real gist of what makes the course so unique.

Frankly, from my perspective, the article was written by someone who has a close relationship with the powers-that-be at Links and the writing is nothing more than a "what I did for my summer vacation" type writing.

Links is serious magazine -- well -- at least I think so -- and I would hope the folks who write on golf could provide a clear and much more penetrating analysis on why the course is so much more than anything that has come before it in New Zealand.

What's amusing is how many pictures are devoted to the course in the article but how few words are then applied to give some deeper meaning to how it all ties together.

Unfortunately, when you send someone who simply "plays golf" as opposed to someone who is a real "golfer" you get an end product that does nothing more than scan the top of the surface.

The real words on Cape Kidnappers are yet to be printed IMHO.

Andy Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Matt,
I think you hit two nails on the head here, the first being your main point.
But you also said:
Quote
I would think I would have find out in another generic travel / leisure publication -- not Links -- which incidentally has had a good run in its most recent issues.
And I would agree wholeheartedly--I think Links has been terrific the last 6 months or so, with their looks at classic courses, older British Isles courses and new 'classics'.  And the photography that accompanies those writeups has always been very good.
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
I always look forward to my Links delivery.
The article on New Zealand was lame.
I agree with Matt 100%.
Very weak article for a "high end" golf magazine.

-Ted

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Reminds me of the Bandon episode of "The Wandering Golfer".  He playes Bandon Dunes, and wanders up to Sunset Bay GC in Coos Bay with his caddie.  Says something to the effect, 'there's nowhere else in the golfing world than I want to be than here (at Sunset Bay) right now".

Sunset Bay???

Andy Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Quote
Is this the one and only story about the place that will ever be written, the Haley's Comet of stories about golf in New Zealand, not to reappear for another 63 years?
Shivas, I'm afraid you're wrong--that was actually the last story about golf in New Zealand for 63 more years.  But the next article in 2068 is gonna be a doozie!  ;)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 09:58:57 AM by Andy Hughes »
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Matt_Ward

Shivas:

Wake up partner -- this isn't about me -- I love when you turn things around. I expect better from a magazine that touts itself as the definitive word on what is happening within golf. These are the same folks who feature a profile on courses in the UK and Ireland -- quite well in fact most of the time -- and also do one for modern courses in the USA -- a bit less in overall quality there though.

Thanks for your insightful comment that future articles will be written. Really? Geeze, I would never have guessed -- I appreciate your insightful crystal ball gazing.

But the focus of GCA is to critique courses and when articles from major sources -- I consider Links to be one -- decides to take a bite out of the apple I would hope they would do a bit more than the amateurish "what I did for my summer vacation" type writing.




Matt_Ward

Shivas --

Yes, the article ticked me off beause considering the standing of the magazine and the core readership I would hope for a good bit more than what was provided. Shivas -- maybe you read Links because you want information on the nature of the food and the wonderful people but if the golf side of the equation is lacking then the core reader is left wondering where's the meat / narrative to tell the full story.

Guess what my dear misguided friend from Chi town -- see the range of people who agree with what I originally posted. I don't see one who is agreeing with you. Might it be the desire to simply play the role of the contrarian -- I think you are itching to take the place of David M on the left coast but I don't want to give you the gold medal just yet.

Shivas -- being the attorney you are you are quite adept in twisting things and turning them around. It's so painfully transparent and laughable.

I never made a broad brush statement on Links -- I qualified my comments in terms of the different successes / failure they have on course reviews. The series on courses from across the pond is quite good and very well presented for the most part. The "Modern" courses is a bit less so in terms of the details provided. I also mentioned that the last few issues have been well done too.

Shivas -- let me clue you in on journalisic practices since attorneys generally have the attitude that they know everything about everything -- you know the Professor Irwin Corey approach. When a magazine provides no less than the cover on a course and then different pictures within the body of the story and then only devotes a scant two paragraphs out of ten total pages then you have to wonder what were the folks thinking? Cape Kidnappers is a revolutionary course and clearly one that has elevated New Zealand to a place of "must go to" status.

The article could easily have been streamlined to provide a very brief overview of the "summer vacation" style and more on what makes the courses unique or not so unique.

The quote that I posted at the top of this thread came from someone -- although not directly attributable to anyone in particular. Maybe the writer doesn't believe golf course design is worthy of discussion and concentrates on the wider "how I enjoyed my time in New Zealand" approach.

If that floats your boat so be it.

Brian_Gracely

Matt,

Since you're counting votes, I have to side with Shivas here.  While LINKS does have some articles about golf architecture, even those are intertwined with history and local stuff.  They had The Old Course on the cover last month and basically nothing about the course.  They had an article about James Dodson hanging out in the Pinecrest Inn.  So believe it or not, it's not all about GCA.  

So ultimately this is about you, and your belief that there are parts of the world that are seriously screeeeeeewwwwwwwed uuuuuuupppppp because they don't agree with your opinions or don't know as much as you.  

There is an old saying that goes something like, "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."  So maybe instead of constantly bashing GD or GM, or now LINKS, maybe you ought to just talk about the good things you do in Jersey Golfer and let it at that.  


....or are you just pissed that they published this article?
http://www.linksmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=8D280B6878F74944A6800F1C2104A146 ;D

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Matt,
So you are bothered by an author that writes about the many courses that he has played (almost like he got a rental car and a Rand McNally atlas) but won't talk about a specific golf course except to write a couple of paragraphs?

That bothers YOU?  Of ALL people? ???

Put my vote with Shivas and Sandbox.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Matt_Ward

A.G.

You'd put your two sense with Shivas if I said the sky was blue and he said it was red.

Nice try on your feeble attempt for Grand Strand linkage -- I answered all of your questions and provided the kind of balance regarding the idea that the Grand Strand is the place with the most amount of good courses stakced up in a 60-mile location. You are the one who staked the claim of Myrtle Beach on the Digest poll of top 100 public courses. Wow -- what a source to base things upon.

I was hoping that Links would have gone into a bit more depth on Cape Kidnappers -- it would be no different that covering golf in Oregon and only having the same amount of space dedicated to Bandon Dunes and its superb three courses.

Sandbox:

Love the name -- maybe you ought to return to the location your name means. Take heart -- it was a joke so don't get sooooooo defensive. ;D

When you get an opportunity try to read what someone like Jim Finegan writes. Well done essays on the nature of courses and he doesn't skip a beat on the details. The Links article was fluff and more suited to the Conde Nast empire of travel pieces with golf one small part of the reason for going to Kiwi land.

If you think that's being overly negative than we agree to disagree.

Shivas:

Medinah is like Michael Jackson -- a forgotten place / person not worthy of more commentary. I'll be sure to take a long snooooooze when next year's PGA Championship comes to town. ;D We should hook up for a few brews during the event. It might be worthy of Point / Counterpoint on CNN.

Let me repeat something again for your benefit -- I have no issue with consensus when it comes from sources that truly have done their homework. The folks who bitch and moan to me about my comments on Grand Strand golf have not played the other more noteworthy courses that have been sidelines for the likely reason they don't have the massive amount of ad and mktg $$ behind them.

The Digest ratings of America's top 100 public is simply a waste of time once yo get beyond the usual and easy subject to name (e.g Pebble Beach, Bethpage Black, etc, etc). The panel for Digest is really nothing more than a glorified Gallup poll of interested observers -- there are a few really qualified people who assist them -- but over the course of time the Digest polls are beginning to wear thin for their real beef on results.

Shivas -- you can argue and pontificate (you certainly do that so well) all you want. The fact is -- Links could have provided a more detailed report. The article decided to dedicate two paragraphs to a course that has provided a mega impact on the golfing world. It would be no different that going to Rome and giving the Sistine Chapel a mere two paragraphs and devoting more than to how good the quality fo the pizza is right down the street.  

One last thing -- I don't have a JD -- but clearly I am beginning to think you can handle David M as king of contrariness on GCA. Now that's a title to have. ;D

Keep the brew cold when the PGA comes to town next year partner.


 

Brian_Gracely

Matt,

Are there any good pieces by Finegan on Lakota?  I'd love to read a piece on that course by an excellent writer.

Matt_Ward

Gracely:

Just a quick question -- have you personally played Lakota Canyon Ranch?

If so -- I'd be interested in YOUR comments / reaction, etc, etc.

Frankly, the info posted on Lakota on GCA has been quite comprehensive.

Clearly, there are separate opinions on the overall impact of the Jim Engh design style. While I don't find all of his designs to be superb -- I have to say I found Lakota Canyon Ranch to be one of the most scenic and overall fun public layouts one can play. It's certainly worth a look for anyone treking through the I-70 corridor from Denver to points west or vice versa.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Shivas:

With Tom Doak's post, I can confirm that it was the author of this article that I spoke to and that he clearly stated the intent of the article was to do a travel piece not an article about golf architecture.

Part of me understands Matt's view on this. Since its early days, Links Magazine has gone downhill when it comes to being a publication about golf courses. Too much advertising and other junk.....at least for my taste.

But, when it comes to Cape Kidnappers and New Zealand, I don't think the intent of the article - a travel piece - is really inappropriate. New Zealand is a long way to go and it is such a beautiful place that writing about what the journey is like seems appropriate.

I'll never forget the town we stayed in during the Ren Cup - Havlock North. It seemed like a glimpse into what California must have been like 50-60 years ago.......perfect in terms of weather, tranquility and beauty.

Cape Kidnappers fits into that scenario. The place itself is just so amazing that Tom and his team were quite wise to avoid trying to outdo it with their performance as architects.

My benchmark, by the way, was The Old Head in Ireland. Both are spectacular sites, but Cape Kidnappers is where I'd rather play golf if given the choice. It's a far better golf course.

Finally, I second Tom's comments about Jeff and Barnbougle. In Tasmania Jeff seemed far more interested in the golf course itself and didn't seem the least bit interested in the "travel" theme.
Tim Weiman

Mark_Guiniven


If CK only took up two paragraphs, which New Zealand courses did the guy write about?