Weeds?!?!  Hell, I don't even care if there are bare spots on the fairways...

More courses ought to look and play like Southern Pines GC....$20 on a Saturday and some bare patches in the fairway.

Mackenzie SoSA page 181 "It is not even necessary...", page 186 "Certain weeds and mosses...".

it's frightening to me that anyone would complain about weeds in the rough...it's ROUGH, it shouldn't be uniform by definition!!!!!!!!!!

What's a weed?

A plant where you don't want it.

I want it in the rough.

Frankly, golfers, particularly members at private clubs who rarely "get out" and complain about small blemishes like a patch of clover in the fairway or a weed in the rough, need more to think about.  

In my eyes, a perfectly manicured golf course is ugly. In fact, it's the blemishes that add elements of uniqueness, character and charm to many of the world's greatest courses; blemishes including a few so-called "weeds", here and there.

According to the Oxford American Dictionary I happen to have in front of me, a blemish is "a flaw or defect that spoils the perfection of something". A perfect golf course sucks. I've seen "blemishes" at Pine Valley, St. Andrews, Shinnecock Hills, Sand Hills, and my home course, Essex. They're all fine, fine courses still. Without the blemishes, I'm not so sure I'd think the same.

Mr. Mahaffey,

Certainly you jest.  Just keep the weeds off the greens.  Lighten up on water, herbicides, and fertilizers and we are all the better for it.  I think that even the folks at Pronghorn would tolerate a more natural look if they were "educated" by someone like you.

I hate thick, lush rough, particularly when it's bermuda.  When weeds can compete successfully with the desired grasses in the rough, it is more to my liking.  I wish more superintendents could control the amount of water and fertilizer which migrates into the first few yards of rough.

Don't you think that the trend in gca and maintenance is for a more natural look?  From my travels, it seems like the Augusta National Syndrome may becoming a thing of the past.

I have been talking about over conditioning for years.  I knocked down Cypress Point this year because the course is un-natural in its current pristine condition.  I've talked to the super at my club until I am blue in the face but he is afraid of losing his job if the course isn't perfect all of the time.

Its a fine line between a few weeds and bad conditioning.

For me there is a big difference between weeds and natural.  I don't know if its from the granddads farming or what, but when I see Evening Night Shade, Wild Mustard, Queens Anne's Lace, Bull Thistle, or mature plaintain in native areas it drives me nuts and I absolutely hate them on bunker faces!  I don't mind them out in wetlands or distant areas but when in a "prairie area" it looks awful.  I'm not a fan of monostand prairies either.  Our eight native areas have well over 50 species planted in each of them and some are "weeds".  None however are old farm weeds.  In the inner roughs I find sedges particularly annoying.  All this said, I would consider myself a member of the anti-green golf party and a naturalist fan.  Maybe its just in the genes?

Paul,

You've seen how we do it.  Help me describe it better.

Thanks!

JT

I appreciate all the responses. I had a pretty good idea what the general feeling would be about weeds and their impact on our golf courses.

However, as I see it the naturalization of golf courses is not the trend. Oh yeah, we’ll grow some hairy turf around a few bunkers and maybe leave a few snags about and call it bird habitat. Maybe hydroseed a few out of play areas with some native seed and talk about creating habitat. All that is good, but it is my belief that the turf, and especially any short cut turf, is expected to be free of weeds at most high end courses; no matter the cost in dollars or any potential for chemical problems. Make no mistake, in the vast majority of cases, if your playing a golf course free of all weeds your playing a course that has an extensive chemical program in place. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between and very dependent on the local growing conditions. (sand helps a lot) And since the high end courses pay their supers well, we as a group try and create conditions that help us move upward in our careers.

I really found what Steve had to say interesting. I’m at a public, one owner, golf course and my owner doesn’t care if there are a few weeds about. In fact he encourages me to let the edges transition into the native. So, some brown, ratty turf along the perimeter of the property is just fine with him. My golfers have never said a word to me about weeds. If the fairways are green and dry, the tees level and the greens smooth with good pace then everyone is happy. It’s when other supers or their crew members come and play that I hear about the patches of clover in the rough, or the dandelions in the bunker faces, or the small patches of chickweed in the fairways. They can’t understand at all why we aren’t out spending thousands of dollars keeping the place free of weeds and yet we get thousands of comment cards returned to us annually and weeds has never even been mentioned once!

I wonder sometimes just who we are conditioning our golf courses for.

There was a time when we used 2-4-D on the weeds at my course. We "spot" spray for dandelions and clover primarily....use was limited to large patches of either weeds...knock down didn't happen over night, but the weeds were really zapped and dead in a week or so. Then our board of directors said they wanted us to stop using 2-4-D and switch to something "safer" and more environmentally sound.  We spent about $4000 a year spraying weeds with 2-4-D.

Now we use a combo of Confront and Roundup. We get a much faster knock down on the weeds, but it requires a second application to really zap them good. Our costs now are between $8000 and $9000....

The only time I hear complaints about weeds from the golfers is when the dandelion heads have gone to seed and there's a patch of "white heads' here and there.  Other wise, they're smart enough to know there will be some weeds when you have 145 acres of turf.

Jim - no,  I can't describe Angel's Crossing better than you! I would be about a 100-handicap   horticulturist

all I know if that I enjoyed your golf course a lot!

as I said before, rough is rough, and why anybody really gives a S_ _ t what's in it and if it is green puzzles me a lot

I will LOVE your brown grass Joe!  I can't wait to see Kingsley!!!!

I played Maidstone not too long ago and I was quite surprised with the weeds which are quite abundant arround the course.  I was told that the members think that weeks are cool and they feel it gives the course a more natural look.  Personally, dandelions and clover around the bunkers is not what I would consider cool.  I played Friar's Head shortly before Maidstone and it definitely had a natural feeling without the obvious presence of weeds and same for NGLA and Shinnecock.  It has always been my impression that once you allow weeds to exist they tend to take over and then you have some very significant problems.