W 100

« **on:** August 12, 2005, 07:49:29 PM »

See below:

« **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:10:44 PM »

If these are in numerical order....

1.    Pine Valley
2.   Cypress Point
3.   St. Andrews
4.   Augusta National
5.   Shinnecock Hills
6.   Pebble Beach
7.   Muirfield
8.   Sand Hills
9.   Royal County Down
10.   Royal Melbourne
11.   Merion
12.   Royal Portrush
13.   Pacific Dunes
14.   Oakmont
15.   Royal Dornoch
16.   Ballybunion
17.   Turnberry
18.   Pinehurst #2
19.   National Golf Links
20.   Kingston Heath
21.   Carnoustie
22.   Seminole
23.   Crystal Downs
24.   San Francisco
25.   Prarie Dunes
26.   Winged Foot West
27.   Cape Kidnappers
28.   Fishers Island
29.   Oakland Hills
30.   Bethpage
31.   Royal Birkdale
32.   Roayal St. George's
33.   Chicago Golf Club
34.   New South Wales
35.   Hirono
36.   The Country Club
37.   Riviera
38.   Muirfield Village
39.   Oak Hill
40.   Royal Troon
41.   Casa De Campo
42.   Baltusrol
43.   Portmarnock
44.   Olympic
45.   Southern Hills
46.   Sunningdale
47.   Woodhall Spa
48.   Whistling Straits
49.   Barnbougle
50.   TPC Sawgrass
51.   LA CC
52.   Royal Lytham & St. Annes
53.   The Golf Club
54.   Royal Adelaide
55.   Medinah
56.   Kiawah Island
57.   Morfontaine
58.   Kauri Cliffs
59.   Harbour Town
60.   Quaker Ridge
61.   Winged Foot East
62.   Inverness
63.   Maidstone
64.   Garden City
65.   Kingsbarn
66.   Loch Lomond
67.   Lahinch
68.   Ganton
69.   Bandon Dunes
70.   Valderamma
71.   Cape Breton
72.   Royal Liverpool
73.   Cabo Del Sol
74.   Friars Head
75.   Shoreacres
76.   Scioto
77.   Somerset Hills
78.   Cruden Bay
79.   Congressional
80.   Kawana
81.   Durban
82.   St. George's
83.   Shadow Creek
84.   Hamilton
85.   Wentworth
86.   Bandon Trails
87.   Trump National
88.   Spyglass Hills
89.   Camargo
90.   Ocean Forest
91.   European Club
92.   Walton Heath
93.   East Lake
94.   Tokyo Golf Club
95.   Nine Bridges
96.   Wade Hampton
97.   Colonial
98.   Peachtree
99.   Cascades
100.   Naruo

« **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:12:03 PM »

Tommy, I think you're tinkering with the numbers. Besides, the list is nonsense - Wintonbury Hills didn't make it.

« **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:16:56 PM »

Brad,
I admit it! I did do this! Unfortunately I couldn't find any room for Holmby Park!

« **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:23:11 PM »

For comparison purposes, here is a link which shows the rankings on the previous seven lists: http://www.golfselect.com.au/armchair/top100_world.asp

« **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2005, 03:30:38 AM »

Tommy,
If a course dropped out of the hundred, is it possible to find out how far it dropped? How far do they rank down to?

« **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2005, 04:01:50 AM »

Oh thank you so much for that wonderful numerical list of golf courses from 1 to 100----I just can't tell you how much I learned about golf course architecture from it. It's just so informative and edcuational!

« **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2005, 09:32:47 AM »

Towards the bottom of the list in the rankings, is there some sort an attempt to appease the Jones and Fazio constituencies? And as always, because of its US location, Maidstone is overranked--there is no way it is as good as Island, Baltray, or Deal!

« **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2005, 09:41:59 AM »

Tough to argue with too many points, now that NGLA has pulled ahead of KH...

I am very surprised that Cape Kidnappers is ahead of Barnbougle, especially because I assume the same rankers visited both.

« **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2005, 09:42:55 AM »

Quote from: Mark Guiniven on August 13, 2005, 03:30:38 AM

Tommy,
If a course dropped out of the hundred, is it possible to find out how far it dropped? How far do they rank down to?

They used to include the Honourable Mention section which was courses that would have made the world 100 without the U.S. courses, but I believe they have stopped.

« **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2005, 02:12:04 PM »

Hey Ran

Where is our beloved Yale?

It was properly punished for a combination of horrendous restoration attempts combined with years of not even having a superintendent resulting in disasterous playing conditions. It fell off the GW top 100 Classic list as well.

However, The Course at Yale today is a delight to play thanks to a combination of superintendent Scott Ramsay's ability to get the course into pristine condition; his study of the Raynor style and I must say the athletic departments committment to improve conditions (finally!). The result is that Scott has used mowing patterns and grass around bunker edges to take the sting out of the horrible work done by Roger Rulewich.

I can list a large number of courses on the list that can't hold a candle to Yale in terms of architecture, shot values and fun. Yale should have been on this list. It is easily one of the 100 best courses in the World!

« **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2005, 10:46:41 PM »

Geoff,

I was just happy (sic) to see Trump National ahead of such "dogtracks" as Fenway, Nairn, Prestwick, Double Eagle, Black Mesa, Dallas Nat'l, Royal Aberdeen, North Berwick, Carne, National at Moonah, Paraparaumu, Valley Club, Monterey Peninsula, Cuscowilla, Camargo, Hollywood, Swinley Forest, Walton Heath, etc...

« **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2005, 03:10:41 PM »

Quote from: Steve Lapper on August 13, 2005, 10:46:41 PM

Geoff,

I was just happy (sic) to see Trump National ahead of such "dogtracks" as Fenway, Nairn, Prestwick, Double Eagle, Black Mesa, Dallas Nat'l, Royal Aberdeen, North Berwick, Carne, National at Moonah, Paraparaumu, Valley Club, Monterey Peninsula, Cuscowilla, Camargo, Hollywood, Swinley Forest, Walton Heath, etc...

Steve- Got me

I can think of many others as well.

I've been lucky to play many of the World 100 list both in the US and abroad and as it sits now I think Yale comes out better then the following (some of which will be shockers). Others on the list that I have played and not listed are close in my comparison with Yale. I see others on the list that I have not played that I would be surprised if I would put them above Yale should I get to play them.

Seminole!
Pinehurst #2!
San Fransisco GC !
Baltusrol
Olympic
Harbor Town
Cruden Bay
Maidstone!
Bandon Dunes
Shadow Creek
Trump National

Spyglass Hill
Ocean Forrest

« **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2005, 03:26:20 PM »

I really hope you are kidding that Yale might be better in your opinion than Seminole, Pinehurst, Olympic and Spyglass??? As Lee Corso would say...."Not a chance my friend!"

« **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2005, 03:44:11 PM »

Ben: I know that half the people who got to Cape Kidnappers didn't get as far as Barnbougle; and I think there are a few who have been to the latter but not the former. I have yet to hear from anyone who has played both who didn't rate Barnbougle higher, so I would expect it to gain over time, but they both have their own appeal.

Geoffrey: Many of the panelists who rated Yale did so before Scott Ramsay's involvement, and it will take a few years before the rankings reflect his work. Realistically, that's the only way it can be done. You can't throw out all the old votes for a course every time someone claims to have improved it. And, don't forget my statement of a month ago: everyone has at least one course in their top 10 which they know doesn't really belong.

« **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2005, 03:47:51 PM »

Don

You are entitled to your opinion. From strictly an architecture sense and from more GREAT golf holes and trrilling shots then I easily stand firmly in my opinion.

I think Ran would agree with me on this one as well.

Please tell me where there are better holes on any of those courses then Yale #4,8,9,10,17? The greens are better then even #2 which are totally over rated and repetitive.

« **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2005, 03:51:10 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on August 14, 2005, 03:44:11 PM

Geoffrey: Many of the panelists who rated Yale did so before Scott Ramsay's involvement, and it will take a few years before the rankings reflect his work. Realistically, that's the only way it can be done. You can't throw out all the old votes for a course every time someone claims to have improved it. And, don't forget my statement of a month ago: everyone has at least one course in their top 10 which they know doesn't really belong.

Tom- I know that's all true. I just wanted to go on record stating how the good work up there lately has paid off. I certainly have written enough negatives over the past years. Its only fair that I give credit where it is due.

ps- I have nott seen the US list- Is Yale on that? Thanks

« **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2005, 03:59:38 PM »

I just picked up the issue on the newsstand today. Yale did finish 77th in the USA. They did not do us the favor of listing which courses had fallen off the list this time.

« **Reply #18 on:** August 14, 2005, 04:20:54 PM »

Tom

Thanks. I think its inclusion is now certainly deserved. Hopefully people will go and see the good work being done to expand greens, remove hundreds of trees per year for the next several years, firm up the course and utilize better mowing patterns for fairways and to present the bunkers

in the best light possible.

« **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2005, 07:53:27 PM »

Mr Childs,

Please play a course before you claim it is better/worse than another. I have played Yale over 100 times in the last 30 years......it is not better in total than Seminole. It is not better in total than Pinehurst #2. It is not better in total than Olympic. It is not better in total than Spyglass Hill. Sh*t, maybe one hole at Crumpin Fox is better than one hole at Seminole........we should always talk in terms of all 18 holes..not 1, 4 or 5.

For the rest of your list, I do not have a bone to pick...even though Baltusrol is a great golf course. The new supers at Yale and New Haven are both doing great jobs.......maybe the top 2 rated in the state will eventually be within 5 miles of each other!

« **Reply #20 on:** August 14, 2005, 08:25:49 PM »

I think if someone was going to make a bold statement and post "there" world top 100, then first they have had to play the courses and second now what the hell they are talking about, in relation to golf courses and architecture I agree with Brad, the list is nonsense. How do u put Pacific Dunes above National Golf Links??? I will leave u with that note Tommy. And if u could, please answer that question?

Muni

« **Reply #21 on:** August 14, 2005, 08:47:28 PM »

Ben - rankers?

Brad - please prescribe an acceptable deodorant.

J

« **Reply #22 on:** August 14, 2005, 10:20:49 PM »

Quote from: Don Herdrich on August 14, 2005, 07:53:27 PM

Mr Childs,

Please play a course before you claim it is better/worse than another. I have played Yale over 100 times in the last 30 years......it is not better in total than Seminole. It is not better in total than Pinehurst #2. It is not better in total than Olympic. It is not better in total than Spyglass Hill. Sh*t, maybe one hole at Crumpin Fox is better than one hole at Seminole........we should always talk in terms of all 18 holes..not 1, 4 or 5.

For the rest of your list, I do not have a bone to pick...even though Baltusrol is a great golf course. The new supers at Yale and New Haven are both doing great jobs.......maybe the top 2 rated in the state will eventually be within 5 miles of each other!

Don

Respectfully put- you are full of shit with your blanket statements. These are my opinions on the architecture of these courses which I have played. For your information I have played the course at Yale more times then you have if that's all you have played it. If you in a million years think that Spyglass Hills is a better golf course then Yale then I can't take your opinions on golf courses seriously. I can respect that this is your taste in golf course architecture but that's as far as it goes. I would call my opinion on SFGC, seminole and P #2 as controversial and close (especially for Seminole which I love) but I think Yale is a more solid course with better balance, variety, topography, great holes and thrilling shots then any of the others mentioned. You simply said I was wrong with absolutely no details. Well lets here your detailed evaluation. If all you are going to give us is your word as you did to Mike Cirba in the Trump discussion then you have no credibility. Fire away.

« **Reply #23 on:** August 14, 2005, 10:24:10 PM »

Quote from: Muni on August 14, 2005, 08:25:49 PM

I think if someone was going to make a bold statement and post "there" world top 100, then first they have had to play the courses and second now what the hell they are talking about, in relation to golf courses and architecture I agree with Brad, the list is nonsense. How do u put Pacific Dunes above National Golf Links??? I will leave u with that note Tommy. And if u could, please answer that question?

Muni

Muni

Agreed! NGLA is probably the single most brilliant and enjoyable place to play golf on the whole planet. There are a very small handfull of courses that courld be argued with sanity as being #1 and NGLA is among them IMHO.

« **Reply #24 on:** August 14, 2005, 11:12:01 PM »

Mr. Childs

As an alumnus of Yale, I do have a soft spot for that golf course and do appreciate what has been done. I have not seen the course since the 2003 Payne Whitney outing but have probably played the course 30 times.

I have also played Seminole a like amount of times as my winter home is in the area, and play SFGC anytime I am on the west coast. You are spot on in regard to Spyglass. But at what point does the choice come down to "what course would I prefer to play tomorrow"? What is better Yale or Fenway? Are you a member at Fenway?

Keep this up and the administration will REALLY think they hired the right restoration expert.

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