Old Sandwich

« **on:** August 11, 2005, 02:13:03 PM »

I played with a gentleman last weekend who was raving about this new C&c golf course, claiming it was the finest course he had ever played, better than many of the hallowed venues revered on this site.

Does anybody have any input, or even better photos?

« **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2005, 02:40:29 PM »

First off It is Old Sandwich and it has been discussed at numerous times on the forum.......one poster even felt that it was a travesty a club would disapprove of photos being taken and posted on sites such as GCA

I have played OSGC numerous times and I definitely would put it in my top 10 modern (of which I have played). I would put it in the Friar's Head/Kingsley class of newer courses......

« **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2005, 02:44:09 PM »

Thanks Don...I knew I had spelt it wrong, especially coming from the other side of the pond anyway

This guy I played with is a member of Oakland Hills, and he would not stop raving about the place.
Funny you should mention Kingsley in your post, as that is where we were playing when he was telling me about Old Sanwich.

« **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2005, 03:48:52 PM »

I thought Old Sandwich was terrific. It is in my top 10 with Friars Head, Kingsley, Sand Hills, and Pacific Dunes as well. It got better and better as we played finishing with a beautiful 486 yars par 4. Great cabins too.

« **Reply #4 on:** August 11, 2005, 03:52:57 PM »

Jim,

Was #18 a bending dog-leg left?

« **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:02:33 PM »

Jim,

How did you like the "settle-up" 19th hole?? I loved it.........

and you are right, the cabins are marvelous.....I'd could spend a few weeks in one of those no problem!

« **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:18:43 PM »

Quote from: Sandbox_Gracely on August 11, 2005, 03:52:57 PM

Jim,

Was #18 a bending dog-leg left?

Brian,

Are you implying that C&C does this often?

Some of C&C courses with a finishing hole that bends left to some degree:

FH
SH
Warren
Kapalua (P)
Cuscowilla
Chechesse Creek
TS (N) barely bends left by a just a few degrees (center of fairway to center of green)

Do not bend left:

Austin GC
Easthampton
TS (S)
Bandon Trails
Hidden Creek
Barton Creek

« **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:41:02 PM »

Brian -

It was more straight than bending left compared to Sand Hills and Friars Head. It actually did not remind me of either if you're interested. I only wish I could have stayed longer, but I had to catch a ferry to go play Friars Head the next morning

.

« **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:57:51 PM »

Hurricane,

How is the golf or airline industry going to stay in business after little G.O.L.F. is born?

« **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:08:22 PM »

I had Chechessee Creek in the wrong list above and have fixed it. I mixed up #9 and #18 from my memory.

« **Reply #10 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:13:06 PM »

Brian -

I have trips scheduled to Vegas, Sand Hills, North Carolina, and Orlando during the fall so the airlines will be fine. Thankfully I have a very understanding bride. Little G.O.L.F. is due any day now, I just hope he doesn't come on Monday as that is the day we are moving

. Strategic planning at its best.

« **Reply #11 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:21:06 PM »

I played Old Sandwich this spring and, though I enjoyed it, I certainly wouldn't put it in Coore and Crenshaw's top three or four courses yet ... so I'm curious why others would?

There has been pretty much nothing specific said about the course so far, other than it's great. [Someone did mention the yardage of par-4 eighteenth, but nothing about the hole.] It's no wonder that many view this site as a love fest for certain architects among us and not others.

My favorite hole was the short par-4 which was reminiscent of the 8th at Pine Valley.

« **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:36:58 PM »

Tom -

I will give a more detailed analysis tomorrow when I have more time. Pregnant wife at home and packing to do.

« **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:37:55 PM »

I've heard more glowing reviews about OS than non-glowing reviews, but the fact is that there have been some non-glowing reviews (a relative term, I guess). As far as glowing, I've heard 1 or 2 say it has a Pine Valley feel to it, so maybe that's why several like it a lot, I don't know.

I played with a GCAer recently who has played it and said it wasn't that great. He liked Boston GC better.

Does the fact that there seem to be no public pictures to be found of the place make it more desirable to play it? And thus makes it better than it really is once you get to play it? I'm thinking of a parallel to Seminole and SFGC....are they partly overrated for this reason?

« **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2005, 07:31:47 PM »

Mr Burroughs,

Please play OSGC before you state that Boston GC is better. I have played each multiple times and there is no doubt OSGC is much better. Having no photos has no impact on the non-glowing/glowing reviews. It is ultra-private and gets very limited play. You are correct about a Pine Valley feel, but I think it has a Shinnecock and Friar's Head feel to it also.

As far as specifics on OSGC, I'll add some:

I think the front 9 as a whole is better than the back (even though 13-16 is a pretty good mix of holes). My favorite hole is #13, a 560 yd par-5 with the green set back into a hill surrounded by bunkers. My 2nd favorite is #5, a 336 yard par 4 which is drivable if you take an aggressive line (come up short and you are in major trouble). That is just a taste.

« **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2005, 10:36:58 PM »

Quote from: Don Herdrich on August 11, 2005, 07:31:47 PM

Mr Burroughs,

Please play OSGC before you state that Boston GC is better.

He didn't say Boston GC is better. He said that a guy he played with said that that guy liked it better.

« **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2005, 10:40:04 AM »

He "stated" that BGC was better from what someone told him.......my comment was correct. I just do not know how anyone can comment or post comments of others without seeing the place for yourself......that is one thing I never do....if I have never seen it or played it, I do not comment......I wish most would follow my lead

« **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2005, 10:57:04 AM »

Quote from: Scott_Burroughs on August 11, 2005, 05:37:55 PM

I played with a GCAer recently who has played it and said it wasn't that great. He liked Boston GC better.

I'm thoroughly enjoying your comments, Don, but no matter how many times I read this, I fail to see how Scott said BGC is better.

One of my favorite tidbits picked up at the 2004 winter meeting at Baltusrol was when Gil told us that he visited Bill Coore at OS and Bill Coore visited him at BGC several times, and they bounced ideas off each other. It is wonderful to see shared passion resulting in 2 special places.

« **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2005, 11:26:41 AM »

Quote from: Scott_Burroughs on August 11, 2005, 05:37:55 PM

I played with a GCAer recently who has played it and said it wasn't that great. He liked Boston GC better.

Don,

What is it about the statements above that makes you think I gave my opinion on BGC vs. OSGC. I think your reading comprehension skills need to be worked on.

I stated "He" liked BGC better. What is it about "He" that makes you think I said "I"?

I was relaying what HE said (remember "He" is not the same as "I"/"me"/Scott Burroughs) to me (not "He"/my GCA friend) in person a few weeks ago. He (again, not "me") is someone whose opinion I value, but that certainly does not mean I accept them as my own. I cannot give my opinion on OSGC as I have not played it. I have played BGC, in case you missed the recent thread of pictures I posted: link

« **Reply #19 on:** August 12, 2005, 12:25:11 PM »

Something to talk about, from the yardage book...

Cheers, Steve

« **Reply #20 on:** August 12, 2005, 01:19:42 PM »

Thanks for posting that, Steve.

I really like the idea of a ridge following the last 100+ yards of the fairway - makes the layups and heroic second shots a little more interesting. For those who've played it, how significant is that ridge? And how wide is the hole? It looks kind of narrow in the drawing, but I understand if it simply not drawn to scale for a yardage guide.

Maybe I'll redraw this and submit it to Tom for his contest....

« **Reply #21 on:** August 12, 2005, 10:40:47 PM »

Tom Doak,

What C&C courses are ahead of it??

Steve

« **Reply #22 on:** August 12, 2005, 10:49:00 PM »

Quote from: Jim Franklin on August 11, 2005, 05:36:58 PM

Tom -

I will give a more detailed analysis tomorrow when I have more time. Pregnant wife at home and packing to do.

Jim,

We'll wait with bated breath. Of course, if your wife goes into labor unexpectedly, just tell her that you promised us that you'd give us the detailed skinny about OS prior to running her to the hospital.

I'm sure she'll understand.

« **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2005, 09:27:55 AM »

Can we fix the spelling in the Title line?

« **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2005, 11:26:40 AM »

this yardage pic of #2 doesn't quite give a sense of the elevation of the green from the fairway......it is perched up on a bluff and if you miss the green you are in trouble

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