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John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« on: August 08, 2005, 02:06:20 AM »
Guys, I am so sorry.  I just posted an epic about my trip to DFW, a chance to play two rounds with a great guy name Brauer, the stellar play of his son (my defense was great as his 65 Saturday was without me; we played together Friday and Sunday), the massacre that was Omaha on Friday, and more.

It was disallowed because it was too long, but when I clicked back to edit it was gone.  The bulk of it was trying to bring attention to a lesser known work of his called Indian Creek, which I really enjoyed.

Sorry, I think many here would have enjoyed the thread that was titled "Artificial Mounding and Brauer Golf in D/FW".  Man what a waste of an hour!  Good night.  :(

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2005, 08:15:58 AM »

John,

     Sorry to hear about losing the original post.

      I was fortunate enough to play Indian Creek earlier this year with Mr. Brauer and Mr. Duran. As if the company wasn't enough the course is very good, with some very interesting green complexes.  There were some very tough pins that day, especially #12.

     It was my first opportunity to see some of Jeff's work and I look forward to seeing more.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2005, 08:23:22 AM »
It was disallowed because it was too long, but when I clicked back to edit it was gone.  The bulk of it was trying to bring attention to a lesser known work of his called Indian Creek, which I really enjoyed.

Sorry, I think many here would have enjoyed the thread that was titled "Artificial Mounding and Brauer Golf in D/FW".  Man what a waste of an hour!  Good night.  :(


A word to the wise: Before posting ANY long post, here or elsewhere, get in the habit of Ctrl-A-Ctrl-C'ing it first.

John: Could you give us the Executive Summary?

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2005, 09:34:57 AM »
I give up, what does Ctr-A-Ctr-C accomplish?  I too have had such a disaster occur and it's not painless!

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2005, 09:47:27 AM »
I give up, what does Ctr-A-Ctr-C accomplish?  I too have had such a disaster occur and it's not painless!

Ctrl-A highlights the entire text.

Ctrl-C copies the entire text.

Then, if something goes awry, you still have the entire text there at your disposal, ready to be Ctrl-V'd ("pasted").

Another possibility, of course, is to compose everything in, say, Word, and then Copy/Paste it into the GCA posting box.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 09:48:39 AM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2005, 09:51:10 AM »
I give up, what does Ctr-A-Ctr-C accomplish?  I too have had such a disaster occur and it's not painless!

Bill,

I do the same thing as Dan.  Ctr-A   Ctr-C, selects the entire text of your post, then copies it to your paste buffer, so in case the post is too long, or the GCA server goes down, or your own computer goes down or gets hung up, then you haven't lost your post.  This has saved me from losing stuff at many times...I do it on EVERY SINGLE POST.

Oh, once you've saved it to your paste buffer, Ctr-V pastes it back in case you lose it.


EDIT:  cross-post w/Dan.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 09:52:01 AM by Scott_Burroughs »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2005, 09:54:43 AM »
John,

How many words does it take to say "nice day of golf?" :)  Of course, you can critique all you want - the first words out of your mouth were "You don't look 50" so you get a free pass on everything else! ;D

To be fair at Indian Creek, we must give Dick Phelps credit for 80% of the routing, God 100% credit for the nice trees (and flat ground) and Brauer credit only for updating the look of the greens and tees, etc. from circa 1986 to 2003, and using earthmoving to provide more fw drainage than was typical in moderate budget munis in the 80's.

I do think I recreated some strong holes, like the Valley of Sin 3rd, centerline bunkers on 4, Maxwellian green on 5, restoring the double fw on 6, the 65 yard long green on 9, the reverse redan on 12, the wild short par 3 14th - exactly half the length of 12 - and the home stretch.  At least, those are my favorites among them.

As we discussed, like a Mike Young, I pride myself in doing so many courses of that quality that can be played for under $50.  I started with a pretty good course, and even with updates, its a good golf experience for a reasonable price. I look forward to any additional comments, although you weren't shy in discussing your opinions while playing! ;)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2005, 10:48:36 AM »
Where is Indian Creek?  From Jeff's description of the variety of holes, it sounds like a "don't miss."  Doubly so if affordable public access.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2005, 10:49:56 AM »
How many words does it take to say "nice day of golf?"

Four.

But who's counting?

P.S. How much older than 50 did he think you look?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 10:55:32 AM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2005, 10:54:37 AM »
How many words does it take to say "nice day of golf?"

Four.

But who's counting?




Dan,

Would that include the inevitable expletives that go with putting Brauer greens?  Or would that expand the count to, say something just under infinity? ::)

Conley, BTW, is a pretty good player. He started strong, and slowed down a bit in the heat, whereas I started slow, and then petered out altogether......He is also a heck of a putter.  He must have made five bombs at Cowboys, fewer at Indian Creek, when we weren't playing "Vegas" for $0.10 per point........he must need a little action to concentrate!

Bill,

Indian Creek is in Carrollton, TX, near the intersection of State 121 and I-35 E, north of downtown Dallas, and northeast or the north edge of DFW airport.  I don't know if its a must play, but it is an interesting snapshot of my design philosphy of a few years ago......
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 10:57:23 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2005, 10:56:05 AM »
The short version, which I wasn't about to attempt in my not-too-cheery mood is this:

No need to write more about Cowboys since it gets attention and was a feature of a Whitten Index.  Young Andrew is a stellar player who fired 65 without me on Saturday, in between rounds of 73 and something in the high 70s.  Defense wins championships and I was proud to have done such a good job.

My comments on Indian Creek were detailed for about half of the holes.  Some of my favorite things were the "one bunker per hole" around each green and European style defense exhibited on holes like #2.  Instead of being overdone like modern work, this course works toward subtlety.

Jeff was in very good spirits for a guy who watched guys almost shoot his age on Friday at Champions.

The attention getting title to the thread was a nod to something non-golf related, my tour of the breast implant manufacturing plant where you'd be surprised to learn that the process is almost entirely manual.

Finally, nobody would be more surprised by my post than Jeff himself.  While my golf was shoddy and the talk running a gamut of topics, I did process a ton of mental notes and spent the better part of that hour putting them in print in a post now lost forever.  Anyway, the short par three he mentions is cool in that a back right pin results in a line of play over the fence and atop the river on a hole just 130 yards long.  The par 5 sixth offers two routes with the short right path seeming much simpler, however this tack causes discomfort as the line of play on the higher-risk second takes you back toward water that really wouldn't be a facror for those taking the left road.

#16 puts Joe Lee to shame, it's too bad he didn't live to see someone do one of HIS par 5s with an improvement.  Who knew a golfer might like a place to land their second shot?!  #18 is a reverse image of #1 at the Devlin/VonHagge Royal Oak where Moe Norman spent most of his winters - 50 yards longer with less uphill to the green.

I could go on and on.  Oh, that's right.  I did.  Don't get me started!

Bottom line... A course like Indian Creek has strong architectural merit at 1/3 the cost of higher profile Cowboys, 1/4 the price of the TPC at Las Colinas (where they charged me $16 to hit balls and that was even with staying at the hotel).  Whether Brauer is responsible for 100% of it or not, it isn't "good for a municipal" (comment du jour from the golf editor of a major newspaper)... it is good period.  And it happens to be a municipal.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2005, 11:00:15 AM »

Bill,

        Indian Creek is in Carrollton, Texas a suburb of Dallas. It is definately worth checking out.

http://www.indiancreekgolfclub.com/layout9.asp?id=154&page=2330


John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Good fricking night (Brauer golf Dallas)
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2005, 11:11:15 AM »
Where is Indian Creek?  From Jeff's description of the variety of holes, it sounds like a "don't miss."  Doubly so if affordable public access.

Bill:  Jeff's comments don't do it justice because he's too modest of a guy.  My comments tried to, but I exceeded some threshhold.  Damn, that must have been a long post.  Have you seen some of the stuff Tom Paul fits on a thread?

Brauer's comments about my game are pretty funny.  I hit it about as bad as anyone could at Cowboys and made some serious putts, then actually got around tee to green fairly well for a has-been playing from 7200+ yards without a lot of roll.  The great putting?  Seriously, it escaped me because I had one stretch where I three putted FIVE straight holes because I never got down with the speed - I still can't tell if they were the same as Cowboys, faster, or slower - and struck indifferent approaches that left me seafaring putts on Brauer's bold greens.

Yes, it is worth seeing if around D/FW.  Alas, it isn't worth a trip to see specifically (notice Quass is going to see Brauer's Quarry in a remote area of Minnesota and not Indian Creek in the DFW Metroplex), but definitely worth seeing when in town.  I guss that makes is a Doak Scale 5.  Your friends who either need someone to tell them a course is good or aren't impressed because a course lacks CCFAD glitz and amenities (the scented mango towels were prevalent on Friday, nowhere to be seen on Sunday) might be nonplussed.  Heck, Jeff's own son felt that way.  I expressed how much I was enjoying the track - architecturally you'd probably find it even be stronger than Cowboys - and he shrugged and muttered something about the slow play at a municipal on the weekend and how he likes playing his home club, the Greatest Golf Course in all the Southwest, in 3 1/2 hours.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 11:15:02 AM by John_Conley »

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