[Sean_A]

While playing Beau Desert yesterday a converstion was struck up about how good BD compared with the big guns.  In our fourball BD did very well indeed.  One guy (ex secretary of Hoylake) reckoned it was a top ten of inland courses in the UK.  Beating out courses such as Walton Heath.  Another chap said he reckoned it was better than loads of links courses.  He then mentioned Cruden Bay as being overly thought of.  CB fell like a brick in the last Golf World ratings down into the 80s.  He went on to say that the "views are the only thing propping up this broken down chariot".  Turns out he was on the Golf World panel and he said loads of other panelists agreed with him.  "Don't get me wrong, Cruden Bay is delightful, but nothing unusual.  To be fair, Cruden Bay is for Yank tourists".  

Do y'all reckon that Americans think much more highly of Cruden Bay than Brits?  On the surface, the evidence seems to point this way.  How good is Cruden Bay in the pantheon linksdom?

PS  I am now 1 for 8 at Beau Desert.  Yesterday was the first time I played the course with one ball.  The course was much better than two weeks ago because of heavy rainfall this past weekend.  It was running, but not out of control as is normally the case.

Ciao

Sean

[Darren_Kilfara]

Copied from another thread:

"Some of the holes you call "flops" truly show that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'll agree with you that #9, though possessing all-world scenery from the back tee, is a dud; #15 is pretty ordinary, although it's certainly unusual, and as far as I'm concerned originality is normally worthy of bonus points even when it's odd. But #8 is an all-world driveable par 4, with a real risk-reward tee shot and a delightful green complex - out of all the golf holes in the world, it made the cover of Tom Doak's book, for crying out loud! #2 and #14 are more acquired tastes, but I love them both - the plateau green on #2 takes some hitting, while on #14 it's fairly easy to hit the green (although if you miss it left, right or short you'll have real problems making par), but the downslope leading to the front of the green isn't so steep that you aren't tempted to land the ball short and trickle it down to a front pin."

Only the 9th is a hole I don't rate at all at CB; there are a few other marginal ones, but a great number of sterling, quirky masterpieces. I think it's every bit worthy of the "8" rating Doak gives it, but it's pretty obviously that very few people are likely to have a strong affinity for both Cruden Bay and its nearest "great" course, Royal Aberdeen. To that extent, CB is very much a matter of individual taste...but to call it "a broken down chariot" showcases that individual's contempt for quirkiness rather than any sort of universal value judgement.

By the way..."Cruden Bay is delightful, but nothing unusual" - is that quote for real? Anyone who thinks that CB isn't "unusual" needs to get his eyes examined.

Cheers,
Darren

[Tom_Doak]

I would probably give Cruden Bay a 7 if I was re-rating all of the courses in the Guide today (which I'm not).

The 8 was to recognize the fact that nearly anyone would enjoy the thrill of seeing it and playing it for the first time.  However, I don't think it is a course which grows on you much the more you play it, as most of the my other 8's do.  This is not just because there are some obvious weak holes in the round; it's because the good holes (even the 8th) are not full of subtleties, especially on and around the greens.

But I wouldn't mind getting back there again!

[Will Hubbard]

I can't believe that "panelist" said Cruden Bay is nothing unusual.  That kind of comment just shows he is spoiled and jaded, because he has probably seen too many great courses as a "panelist".  I would not say that CB is perfect, but it is far far better than the average golf course.  What course doesn't have a few weak holes?  A large part of golf is fun and CB is just flat out fun to play.  

If the Brits don't play it, my guess is its because of price and rural location.  A 30 minute drive to them requires a caravan.

[Philip Gawith]

I have not played Cruden Bay so I will keep quiet on that one. But I have looked at the composition of the Golf World panel and that hardly inspires confidence. Essentially, the biggest component by some margin, if memory serves, is representatives of different regional golf bodies.

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out that this category of people is going to be hugely parochial, trying to promote their own regional courses. I am not too sure, therefore, that I have a lot of confidence in their judgements.

[Geoffrey Childs]

I don't have time for details as I'm up to Yale in a few minutes but I will say that Ran's notion is that to be a great course you must have great golf holes.

Cruden Bay has great golf holes that will stir the soul and make you smile. The stretch of 2-8 is outstanding and 14 makes my all world quirk course. That alone and along with the beauty should make it worth going out of your way to play.

[Andy Hughes]

Sean,
I do understand your take on Cruden Bay, and it can't really be argued that it has 18 sterling architectural gems.
But I am not entirely sure that is wholly the point with Cruden Bay, is it?  Isn't there something about the location and the course that stirs the soul? It's hard to quantify the thrill or the uplifting effect of certain rare courses, but Cruden Bay seems to have it in spades.
Of course, I'm a Yank tourist, so what the heck do I know?  
Andy

UPDATE: grr, I see Mr Childs snuck in the 'soul stirring' just before me  

[Mark_F]

Sean,

It must be the Yanks.  Don't know how many Aussies have played it, but I thought it was terrible.  A few great holes, some fantastic scenery, but really, nothing special.

The same people who try to convince you it is a great course probably think Damien Hirst and Tracey Emin are great artists, i.e. they and they alone possess the knowledge to understand.  Aside from 3,4,5 and 6, what else is there besides quirk?

Beau Desert is much better.  A fantastic course, some great scenery, although not in the same league as CB of course.  

I left mystified as to how no one in the UK ranks it.

[Mark_F]

Sean,

Actually, I agree with you about CB. I thought 7 was okay, and I quite liked 13 and 14.  It remains, however, along with Birkdale and Cavendish, as the only two of the courses I've played in the UK that I wouldn't be interested in seeing again - and there's a whole lot more fantastic stuff to see in the UK first too, I would say...

Maybe I expected too much?  It sure is an original, but the bad holes make TOC's bad holes look good...

And don't you dare diss Carnoustie!  Come on, Carnoustie is miles better than a little known course in Fife where a rather important championship was just played...

[Yancey_Beamer]

Cruden Bay is the most fun course I've ever played. I've played it many times.

[guesst]

Cruden Bay is so good that I wept as I walked.  Three times in 18.  From joy, and with the realization that I had never seen a golf course before.  

Of course, I'd been without sleep for 40 + hours, I am Scottish, and it was my first visit to linksland . . .  

I was headed to the hotel to sleep the doze of the jet-lagged, but even from the parking lot I found it so enticing I could not miss it.  And, as tired as I was, I found myself so invigorated by what I saw, if it hadn't been getting dark, I would've been happy to do it again.  

Honestly, nothing since has looked the same.  Aside from North Berick with its wall and that amazingly frightening 18th green, and the woman's putting course at St. Andrews, nothing is as memorable for me as Cruden Bay.  I will name my next child Cruden, in tribute.  

Clever, quirky, surprising, interesting, thought-provoking . . . I found something I liked about every hole, and I liked everything about several of them.  I seriously thought about moving to Aberdeen to teach, just because it is close to Cruden Bay.  

But, of course, I'm just a girl.  Carnoustie made me retreat back to the car with my tail between my legs to practice my back-handed driving on the wrong side of the road . . .  I know.  I'm a wuss . . .

 

[RSLivingston_III]

Add me to the advocates for Cruden Bay. Still kicking myself for not getting an available membership there in 2001.
Until I played County Down this year, CB and North Berwick were tied for my personal favorites. County Down just edged them out in my mind.
If they do come out with a dialed back ball, I think many peoples opinions on here will change about these short old courses. Until you are required to hit mid and long Irons into these greens, many will miss the architectural merits. I am assuming it is the scratch/single digit players that are the ones less impressed by the course.
I do realize that having played all my rounds in the UK exclusively with restored antique clubs does give me a distorted perspective.
r3

[RSLivingston_III]

Sean,
I realize you are supportive of CB. My comments weren't for you, they were about the "panelists" that expressed a low opinion of the course.
Nothing unusual???
Maybe they played a different course. Is there a ladies or kids course somewhere in town they played and missed the big course?
ralph

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I love the place. I believe it is not a top 5 course in the UK, but to be great course with many great golf holes much like Machrihanish. If it is a course for yanks then for the first time in the Bush years I am proud to be a yank. I have played there a number of times and yearn for more.  

[ForkaB]

I'm on record with the "3-7 all world/rest of the course all over the place (physically and architecturally)" brigade.  Lots of fun, but by no means "great."

[Jason McNamara]

I love the place. I believe it is not a top 5 course in the UK, but to be great course with many great golf holes much like Machrihanish. If it is a course for yanks then for the first time in the Bush years I am proud to be a yank. I have played there a number of times and yearn for more.  

Well, that's enough time for three more pleasant treks to CB.

(Maybe four, if you get over this summer.  Enjoy!)

Question for the group*:  So is CB kind of the east coast version of Prestwick?

Jason

* Non-rhetorical, as I have never played golf in Scotland.

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