[wsmorrison]

I'll be up in Cooperstown, NY at the end of July to see some guy named Boggs (didn't they name a disease after him?) and some throw away player named Sandberg that was in the Larry Bowa for Ivan DeJesus trade get inducted.  Fortunately, I'll get to play the Leatherstocking Course in the HoF tournament.  

Are there any other courses (classics in particular) in the area worth checking out?  I'll be up there for a few days with the family and may be able to sneak out for a round but surely for a look-see if there's anything of note in the area.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I don't know if there's anything real close, but a few possibilities include:

Seven Oaks, Colgate U's course in Hamilton, an early RTJ, Sr. design (1957).  Hosted 1977 NCAA's.  Mentioned in James Dodson's book "The Dewsweepers."    40+ miles of 2-lane roads away.

Teugega, a supposed Ross gem confirmed by Brad Klein, among others, with a great set of greens.  In Rome, a little over an hour away, I'm guessing.

The Turning Stone Casino Resort's trio of courses, all less than 5 years old.  Supposedly, the original Shenandoah course, designed by Rick Smith (Arcadia Bluffs), is the best.  Just west of Rome in Verona, I'm guessing a little over an hour away.

http://turningstone.com/golf/

[astavrides]

Turning Stone (Smith and Jones, Jr. courses) are very good and in good shape.  Smith course is strategic and fun, but has a misstep or two.  Jones, Jr. is long and tight.  The forested parts of the course are very pretty.  The pro says the Fazio is the best of the 3.

[Scott_Burroughs]

The pro says the Fazio is the best of the 3.

Golfweek has Shenandoah as the 2nd best public course in NY and Golf Digest has it as 19th best in state overall.  Fazio course is probably too new to have enough votes.  We shall see in a few years.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Hey Wayne,

Forget the golf, have at great time at the Hall of Fame induction!

[wsmorrison]

Thanks, Scott and Stavros.  A Ross gem confirmed by Brad.  I think I'll take a look at the proximity of Teugega.  That sounds intriguing.

Jeff,

Bill and I had a nice but short stay at the Excelon yesterday.  I told Mike Weir that you send your regards.  He did not appear to have placed the name, but he was going to check you out.

I gave Retief Goosen a facsimile copy of Flynn's routing map of Shinnecock Hills.  He was thankful and said he'd get in touch so I can interview him for the Flynn book.

Bill and I then went back to Merion and watched some guy named Ernie Els hit great drives and be a bit bedevilled by the greens--at least from this observers point of view  

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne,

People I've spoken to are gaga over Teugega.  

[wsmorrison]

Nice one, Mike.  Although I will be an autograph hound for my boys, I'd like to see some upstate classic courses.  If I get to Teugega, I'll take some pics and report back.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Another comment on the pros' favorite course (obviously Alex was only relaying info).  When I went to play Lost Canyons in CA in 2001, the Shadow course had just opened and my intent was to play the heralded (original) Sky course.  The pros said they preferred the Shadow course, so I played it.  Big mistake.  Shadow was not very good.  I still haven't played the Sky, but by all accounts here, it's easily the better of the two.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Wayne,

I have never played it, and it is a stretch to say it is on the way (west of Binghamton in Elmira) but I have always been intrigued by Mark Twain GC by Ross.

http://www.ci.elmira.ny.us/golf/

[wsmorrison]

Mike,
Thanks for the link.  They have a nice website with photos of all the holes.  I'll get the atlas out and see what the distances and travel times are.  Thanks for the help.
Regards,
Wayne

[Jim_Kennedy]

Wayne,
You could drive up along the lake for 10 miles or so and try out the Otsego GC. It was built in 1894 and is one of the first 100 courses in the US. The setting along the lake is very peaceful and beautiful. It's fairly flat but it's a pleasure to play. I think it's around $15.00.

It was built by one of my favorite architects, "Unknown".  

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

That's pretty old and close by.  That's a lot going for it.  And for what the Otesaga charges and with all the gift shop and memorabilia purchases, the $15.00 green fee really fits the budget just right.  Thank you for the suggestion.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Wayne,

If you're choosing between Teugega and Mark Twain, choose Teugega.  Probably an hour closer and supposedly quite intact.

Mark Twain was one of the courses that I played away high school matches on (and also played it in rec rounds).  The bunkering is quite ordinary these days (pics show they haven't changed much since I last played it)....would love to see it restored.

Interesting factoid on Mark Twain is that it's the only course I've ever seen or heard of where all 4 par 3's are uphill.   These days, it's rare to see a course built with as many as 2 uphill.  Visibility and wow factor are what seems to matter today....

Also, the scorecard on the web site for #11 at Mark Twain doesn't show the back tees at 231.  All uphill to one of the steepest greens I've ever encounterd.  Back in the 80's with slower green speeds, it was difficult to keep anything on the green.  Can only imagine what it's like today.

[Dan Herrmann]

A nice place at SUNY Delhi (south of I-88 on the way to/from Cooperstown):  http://www.golfcourse.com/search/cc_display.cfm?clubid=10237&courseid=10249

Here's a picture:

[John Foley]

Wayne,

If Teugega doesn't pan out check out Shenendoah @ Turning Stone. It's very good. The RTJ course Kaluhyat was very tight, very boring & dissapointing and from what I hear Atonyote (Fazio) is $200+!!

I've heard good things about Yahnundasis in Utica which is Travis and has very good greens.

You could also check out Bellvue (Old Ross w/ some very good greens) in Syracuse.

If your comming up 81 thru Bingahmton stop by & see Hiawatha Landing which is Silva and very, very good. You can ignore En-Joie where they play the BC Open.  Was very dissapointed.

[wsmorrison]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  There's some nice old courses to choose from.

John,

You mentioned Binghamton.  I have a fond memory of a camping trip.  This was in the mid 1970s and about eight friends and I were supposed to go to some really nice state park but all the campsites were taken.  One of the guys had a friend that went to SUNY Binghamton.  He called him up and asked him where we should go camping.  He mentioned Lake Empire and that we were in for a big surprise.  We found it on a map and started down this long dirt road.  Now back in those days we had some mind altering substances in our system so we kind of rubbed our eyes as we pulled into the campground.  Everyone was naked!  It turns out the place was owned by the school and it was an accepted practice for students and profs not wear any clothes.  That was one fun naked weekend with girls we'd never see again, booze and contraband.  Ahh... the 70s.  The water was freezing but the tents sure got hot!

We went back the next year with our girlfriends but it wasn't nearly as much fun.  Although my suspicions about my friend's girlfriend's augmentations were confirmed  

I heard the campground was sold many years ago.  Too bad, not that my wife would go anywhere near the place at nearly 50 and a couple of child births.   Then again, I'm about 50 pounds heavier...at least I have the memories.

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne,

I'm shocked!  

Get back to your monastic lifestyle writing that Flynn book!  

Seriously, I'm surprised you can remember the 70s.  I know I can't.  

[wsmorrison]

I have flashbacks now and then you hippie freak  

I've got 320 pages completed on the Flynn book.  Only three more volumes to go    Just kidding, but it is gonna be pretty long--at least till the editor gets a hold of it.  I'm serious about getting it done this year.  Lokk for Tom and I at a book signing near you next summer!

PS:  Check your aol email

[PThomas]

Wayne -- can't help re any courses but I can tell you that that Sandberg throwaway turned out ok

have fun!

[wsmorrison]

Not for the Phillies, Paul  

One of the few times the Phils got the better of a deal was with the Cardinals and the Carlton for Wise trade...that worked out fine for us as Carlton won 241 games and 4 Cy Young awards and Wise went south fast.

[astavrides]

Not for the Phillies, Paul  

One of the few times the Phils got the better of a deal was with the Cardinals and the Carlton for Wise trade...that worked out fine for us as Carlton won 241 games and 4 Cy Young awards and Wise went south fast.

Dont forgot Wes Chamberlain for Carmelo Martinez (who could? )  The Phils robbed my Pirates blind on that one.

[Bill Gayne]

A Devil Ray in the Hall of Fame!!!

[Bill Gayne]

Another great trade:

Sonny Jurgenson for Norm Snead.

[JNC Lyon]

I have played both Teugega and Mark Twain, and while Mark Twain is very good (the greens are great for a public track) Teugega is far and away the best in the region. The bunkering is quite intact and very interesting, and the greens are diverse and unsurpassed. The shortest par three is 140, while the longest is 225. Variety is profound, and the terrain is used to perfection in typical Ross fashion. I have played it twice, and access is not much of a problem. If possible, definitely play it!

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