Help in teaching class

« **on:** June 06, 2005, 09:54:57 AM »

I have been asked to teach a golf design class at my Alma Mata, Ball State University, College of Architecture and Planning. It is essentially a pro bono task and was wondering if anyone out there would be willing to give me a couple of hours with a phone conference and web outline/ presentation.

I would like to see the majority of the presentations done on the web, since many presentations are already on this web site. I would hope that all outlines and presentations could be attached to this web site for review and enjoyment by all. So in the end there would be a comprehensive history, design theory, and future of golf that could be added to and changed by others in the future (on the web) and free to all, perhaps an expansion of the already excellent architectural timeline.

I am thinking:

Thomas MacWood
   History
Brad Klein
   Donald Ross
Chris Clouser
   Perry Maxwell.
Dunlop White
   Shrinking fairway, Trees, etc
Jeff Mingay
   Canadian Golf
Michael Fay
   Donald Ross
Ran Morrissett
   Web page, history, etc.
George Bahto
   Raynor /MacDonald
Tom Paul
   A renaissance movement
Bill Vostinak
   The National
James Duncan
   Tree clearing
Geoff Shackelford
   Future of golf
Tom Doak
   Dr. MacKenzie
Dave Axland
   The development of the historic bunker

Fellow architects Forrest, Kyle, Jeff, others, etc.

Ran?

Thanks in advance.

Anybody in? Any suggestions? All suggestions welcome.

« **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2005, 10:31:57 AM »

As a suggestion and offer...

Mike Nuzzo
Planning, Construction documents / CAD

Cheers

« **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2005, 10:43:19 AM »

I'd pitch the idea of having somebody speak about dealing with governmental agencies. Pitfalls to avoid, and how to steamline the process as much as possible.

« **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2005, 10:48:41 AM »

Tim,

I have been teaching banking courses (commercial real estate finance) for several years for national trade organizations and last year was invited to teach at a banking school in Seattle. I remain astonished that my teaching receives very high marks. I attribute that to the practical experience I bring to my teaching and curriculum. I strive to give students something they can USE. I state my objective at the front end: that each class member take home a list of 25 to 50 (depends on the hours involved) "points" that are universally true and should be applied in their endeavors.

Your list is heavily loaded with history and profiles of golden age architects. There is much to learn from them, but I'm betting Mike Nuzzo's session would trump them all in today's world. It's a design class - not a history class. While your list appeals to me greatly, and is right up the alley for this site's cognoscenti, YOUR successes and failures, YOUR architectural ideology, YOUR greatest challenges going forward are what will enthrall the students.

Find a great golf course and teach by walking around with the students. They can get all the history they want/need from a carefully selected reading list.

"Those that can't, teach" is one of the great lies. The best teachers are those and can, and have. Good luck.

Respectfully,

Mike

« **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2005, 10:55:23 AM »

Tim,

I would be glad to help. You could link them to my two series on Cybergolf.com - making of the Quarry and "Everything You Wanted to Know About Golf Design - but Were Afraid to Ask"

Anything else I can do, just give me a call.

« **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2005, 11:39:44 AM »

I just got off the phone with Tim, who explained this exercise to me in a bit more detail. I think it's a great idea.

I'm in, and willing to help in anyway I can. I hope others, like Jeff Brauer, are game too.

« **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2005, 12:16:00 PM »

No disrespect for Mike Nuzzo and his tech savvy, but please Don't forget to at least mention the way Mr. Coore designs golf holes.

« **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2005, 01:51:14 PM »

Quote from: Adam Clayman on June 06, 2005, 12:16:00 PM

No disrespect for Mike Nuzzo and his tech savvy, but please Don't forget to at least mention the way Mr. Coore designs golf holes.

I assume you meant the way Mr. Liddy designs golf holes.....

Please don't brand me as a techie, I'm only offering one way, personally I would like to never use plans again, but I can when needed - I am currently somewhere inbetween these days.

« **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2005, 02:32:17 PM »

Mike,

Your in and I appreciate it. CAD drawings definitely have a roll in the planning of a golf coourse. CAD drawings are essentialy in dealing with permit issues, enginnering issues, irrigation, etc. -a great planning tool (not construction).

« **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2005, 08:22:11 AM »

Tim,

As long as you make each student purchase Routing the Golf Course your class will turn out fine!

« **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2005, 08:44:06 AM »

Tim, anything you need from me I will be happy to provide.

« **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2005, 09:06:59 AM »

Pro bono! A ridiculous idea. Next thing you know, municipalities claiming poverty will be expecting architects to work for free.

« **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2005, 09:10:22 AM »

Ha Ha Ha, very funny Brad!

« **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2005, 09:59:16 AM »

TiM: I don't see anything on your list about playing surfaces or environmental issues and programs. I'd suggest perhaps Jim Moore, Director of Construction Education at the USGA Green Section, if it fits your general concept for the class. Another good choice might be the fellow up in Wisconsin, Dr. Frank

? (I can't believe I can't recall his last name.....someone here will know it....Brad, help me!) He is very entertaining and highly thought of.

« **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2005, 11:08:57 AM »

Frank Rossi, turf guru, formerly at U-Wisconsin, now at Cornell.

« **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2005, 02:55:08 PM »

Brad:

Of course! Thanks. This is really funny- I kept thinking that Frank's last name was Martini- as in Martini & Rossi vermouth, 1/2 of my dear departed father's favorite evening libation!)

Calling Dr. Freud!

« **Reply #16 on:** June 10, 2005, 03:16:22 PM »

Tim:

Sorry, I appear to be pretty late in noticing this thread. I'll IM you but how do I get in touch with you otherwise? I'm not sure I totally understand what you want to do but I'd be happy to help you anyway I can particularly since I see you put my name on your list.

« **Reply #17 on:** June 10, 2005, 07:04:21 PM »

If you ask me, and you didn't

I think Tom Paul would serve the class better discussing his Maitenance Meld concept; course specific maintenance practices based upon course specific architecture, geology/geography and climate.

What? No interest in William Flynn

« **Reply #18 on:** June 10, 2005, 08:39:28 PM »

Quote from: Brad Klein on June 10, 2005, 09:06:59 AM

Pro bono! A ridiculous idea. Next thing you know, municipalities claiming poverty will be expecting architects to work for free.

See Brad, that's why municipalities should stay out of the golf business, and leave it to private enterprise!

« **Reply #19 on:** June 10, 2005, 08:41:52 PM »

Wayne:

You're right about that. What do I know about the "renaissance movement" anyway even if I did once write an "In My Opinion" thing about it some years ago and I've been labeled a guy who only refers to Cornish and Whitten?

It should probably all be trashed anyway because it seems in the meantime someone believes he's floated incontrovertable proof that the entire Golden Age of golf course architecture should more accurately be renamed "Arts and Crafts" architecture and theat the "Father" or "Guide" of it all was Horace Hutchinson and Country Life magazine.

I wonder if "renaissance" architects today such as Doak, Hanse, DeVries, Coore and Crenshaw et al are aware of that yet.

« **Reply #20 on:** June 10, 2005, 08:50:08 PM »

What does this faux erudite Latin phrase "pro bono" really mean anyway? Or is it just some Eyetalian or worse yet a Spanish or Puerto Rican phrase? I hope the holy hell it doesn't mean somebody is willing to work for free because if you can't at least work for whiskey money---forgetaboutit!

Wayne:

Do you remember that account of Homestead's and Cascades's Fay Ingles when he mentioned that after trying to chase Flynn and some engineer all over the raw Cascades site when Flynn basically routed it in a day they all repaired to that astounding Italianate mansion on the property and downed a bunch of serious Scotch Whiskeys while Flynn worked some numerical calculations and proclaimed; "Yes, I can build you a first class golf course here and I'll do it in no time flat if you really want to foot that kind of bill!"

Now, that's what I call good old fashioned golf course architecture!

« **Reply #21 on:** June 10, 2005, 08:55:22 PM »

"I wonder if "renaissance" architects today such as Doak, Hanse, DeVries, Coore and Crenshaw et al are aware of that yet. "

You can always change the name of the In My Opinion piece from "Renaissance Movement" to "Arts and Crafts Redux"

If Tom MacWood hasn't discovered the concept of renaissance architects, it cannot exist. Can it?

« **Reply #22 on:** June 10, 2005, 11:42:56 PM »

Quote from: Wayne Morrison on June 10, 2005, 07:04:21 PM

What? No interest in William Flynn

Who's William Flynn? I've only heard of Fazio, Nicklaus, and Jones.

oh, and Hills.

« **Reply #23 on:** June 11, 2005, 02:25:32 PM »

Thanks everyone. All ideas are appreciated. I think the most I can ask of you is a video conference or phone conference call based on any subject you would prefer for a 2 hour class. Photos, diagrams, sketches are always great and I will be happy to produce any diagrams, sketches etc. that may be required.
I may be reached by e-mail at timliddy@comcast.net, phone is 765.759.8697 and mobile is 765.744.9696.

I am hopeful to put all the submitted information on an ftp or web site either through the university or privately for acces by everyone who might be intereested.

Thanks again.

« **Reply #24 on:** June 11, 2005, 03:25:43 PM »

Good Afternoon Tim:

I have one quick suggestion.

I think you should have a session which covers Auto-CAD. Not a session to learn the program (that would be done in some of their other classes, but to put extreme emphasis on it. All the students need to have as much knowledge as possible in Auto CAD or they won't be able to market themself in the real world of golf course architecture, architecture, landscape architectue, and planning when they graduate from college. Auto CAD is a must in the world of design and development. A young student can have as much talent as possibl rendering projects and hand drawing plans, but that simpe isn't enough for these young students just getting out of college.

Good Luck!

John

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