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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wynn Las Vegas Review
« on: May 20, 2005, 09:36:43 AM »
Another Wynner

DESPITE A FEW FIRST-WEEK JITTERS, THE OPENING OF THE UNDERSTATED WYNN LAS VEGAS LIVES UP TO THE PROMOTION AND WALLET-WHACKING PRICES
By Darin Bunch
Fake grass? You must be joking.
Not that an artificial find at the heart of the Las Vegas Strip is surprising. We’ve got fake New York, fake Venice and a fake Medieval castle. There’s a fake volcano. Even fake lagoon-like mirages surrounded by fake breasts.
But fake grass on a Tom Fazio golf course, a track fabulously funded by the man who changed the face of high-end resort golf with the incomparable — if not sometimes a bit too ‘high-roller’ for its own good — Shadow Creek?
Thank the Golf Gods it was only the practice tee. And rumor has it that Steve Wynn — in bigger-and-better-than-anyone-else Steve Wynn fashion — is already considering a dazzling upgrade to his handful of scaled-down warm-up bays: computerized simulators for each player.
But for now, golfers who ante up the five C-notes (and another couple hundred bucks minimum for a required room) to compare the Fazio-Wynn collaboration’s Strip-sized followup to Shadow Creek will have to settle for a really big net and their own small section of artificial turf.
Of course, there’s real grass on the course itself — all par-70, 7,042 yards of it. But the meticulous maintenance might fool you into thinking the fairways and greens are also of the manufactured variety. And the chirping birds are real, too — no piped-in Disneyland sound effects here. We asked.
And most every square foot is memorable, if not Shadow Creek spectacular. Because other than the Fazio factor, it’s tough to compare the two tracks. Shadow was drawn on a blank, desert canvas with few restrictions to stand in the way of Fazio’s eye and imagination. Wynn Golf Club, on the other hand, was tucked into 100 fewer acres (only 130) on a property that also needed a few extra squares of dirt for the remainder of Wynn’s $2.7 billion resort, which includes a 50-story twer and a giant, pine-covered, waterfall-cascading mountain.
But there is one comparison we can make right up front: Wynn Golf Club is the best course on the Las Vegas Strip. Sorry, Bali Hai, but you’re not even a close second.
Only thing is, Bali Hai might outlive Wynn Las Vegas, if any of the published speculation or conventional wisdom that Wynn might bulldoze the whole lot for more rooms, housing developments or entertainment venues proves true.
For a man who tends to every detail during the design process, such talk doesn’t faze Fazio, who says he hasn’t had any talks with Wynn about the future of the golf course.
“That’s only logical,” he told Fairways & Greens just after Wynn Las Vegas opened to the public in May. “In Las Vegas, things change. And what could be more exciting than doing another golf course for Steve Wynn? If he did put buildings there ... certainly he loves golf, so that must mean he’ll go out and build another golf course some other place, so how bad would that be?”
It’s premature talk, at the least, especially when there’s much to play, feel and experience inside and outside at Wynn Las Vegas.
The course itself is classic Fazio, with glimpses of his best West work, from the Lakes Course at nearby Primm Valley to the tree-spotted mountainsides of The Presee above the Monterey Peninsula and Shady Canyon in foothills of Orange County.
Fairways are relatively generous, with many bunkers and relocated full-grown trees to spice up club selection just a little bit. The greens are often large targets, but Fazio’s subtle ridges call for precise iron play, lest you face a few Stratosphere-style roller-coaster rides to bogey or double.
Most notably, Fazio and Wynn have erased all remnants of The Desert Inn golf course, the somewhat historic-yet-average track that once wound its way behind the former hotel.
“People who have been to The Desert Inn before just can’t believe the transformation,” Fazio says. “If you had never been there before, you wouldn’t know what evolved — it’s a totally different golf course.”
Certainly, The Desert Inn never had a water feature the likes of the mini-Niagra Falls semi-circling the 18th green — one that you drive your cart through to return to te clubhouse. And while some call such design statements “contrived” (as they also do with the grand gestures of another Fazio collaborator, Donald Trump — see Page 16), the special touches, both big and small, fit perfectly into a manmade golfing landscape that both tickles your senses and challenges your game.
Wynn Golf Club manages to pull off a feat its golfing neighbor down the street can’t achieve: You forget about the surrounding city — the noise, the traffic, the hordes of people pounding the pavement as they wander from casino to casino. In fact, aside from an occasional plane in the sky, the view from deep inside the course is one of trees and the tallest of Las Vegas structures, many of which are obscured by Wynn’s own architectural work of wonder, with its distinctive curvature.
“It has a spectacular interior feel,” Fazio says, a sentiment echoed by most players we talked with. “You have some of this urban feel in the distance with the ‘space needle’ downtown, and you can see a couple of buildings. But on your approach shots or when you’re standing on the greens, when you’re down in those areas, you see almost nothing except golf and the creeks and the lakes and the fairways.”
And that’s what you’re paying for.
But is any golf course worth $500?
Fazio says yes.
“I can see it being worth more,” he says. “It’s like, is any hotel room worth $500? Is any car worth $250,000? Not the kind of car I would drive, so you don’t have to do it. But if you look at what it cost to build that golf course. If you look at what the land values are for that property and look at the value of what’s invested in it, actually, they’re selling it for a whole lot less than their investment.
“It may be out of people’s price range, and maybe people don’t want to pay it, so they don’t have too. But that’s America.  That’s capitalism in its highest form.”
And, honestly, if you’re breaking the piggy-bank for a room at Wynn Las Vegas, the $500 for a round of golf is most likely the least of your worries.
As you’d expect for a lodging rate in the multi-hundreds, the rooms are quite comfortable and stylish (although many visitors we interviewed still give the nod to The Venetian), complete with all the modern amenities, from fancy mini-bar foods to oversized bathrooms to high-definition television sets and desktop fax machines.
And the views are tough to beat, whether you’re on the Strip side or facing the golf course.
We suggest paying the extra cash to stay in the Tower Suites, which offer their own valet service, check-in away from the huddled masses, dedicated elevators and private pools. Midweek room rate is around $379.
Of course, that comes with one of the best perks we’ve found at a high-end hotel: your own private restaurant serving breakfast and lunch exclusively to guests of the Tower Suites.
Chef Mark LoRusso’s creations at Tableau are the perfect motivation to hop out of bed for a breakfast of homemade berry-filled pastries, eggs benedict topped with tender short-rib meat and banana-filled french toast crusted to perfection.
Tableau is open to the public for dinner, but you might want to venture out into other classic cuisines as the sun sets.
Bartolotta Ristorante di Mare is an Italian-only dining experience, with all ingredients flown in from the other side of the world, along with fresh fish from the Mediterranean — all prepared lightly, with a touch of olive oil and little else, as if you were sitting in the Old Country rather than Las Vegas’ newest attraction.
“If there’s something we can’t get from Italy, we don’t serve it until we can,” our waiter, Stefano, said proudly.
Grilled langoustinos — a tasty smaller member of the lobster family — give the meal a start, followed by fresh clams on a bed of pasta al dente. A taste of the mouth-watering risotto gives way to a tableside display of serving skill as the waiters remove the bones from your fresh fish and scoop each delicious bite onto your plate, garnished with squash and tomatoes for a bit of color.
Of course, you could order off the menu — but at a place where every member of the waitstaff has such expertise, why would you? Put yourselves at the mercy of the chef, sommelier and waiter, and you’ll come away with a memorable dining experience — one that both relaxes and enlivens your senses.
After all, that’s Steve Wynn’s philosophy — to take you new places, even if you’re only in the heart of the desert, and even if only for a day. Whether it’s a $500 round of golf on a course that might only be around for a few years or $15 for a stroll through the owner’s personal collection of timeless artwork by Degas, Picasso, Gaughan, Monet and Andy Warhol, Wynn Las Vegas is a comfortable retreat — more resort than casino, more lifestyle than Las Vegas glitz, more personal attention than distraction.
Of course, the naysayers were out in force, waiting for Wynn to fail in his latest venture. And while the hotel’s opening week did have its share of foibles — from ongoing construction work to problems with restaurant reservations — the property immediately showed the promise of a place where many will gather for years to come.
“What would you expect from Steve Wynn?” Fazio says. “It’s supposed to be great. Why wouldn’t it be? First of all, he spent a jillion dollars — because that’s what it takes to build that kind of quality. And if you look at the tapestries, you look at the wallpapers, you look at the details — they’re the best you’ve ever seen.”
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2005, 11:21:09 AM »
Why in the Good Lord's name would anybody patronize the mentioned course before a gem like Bandon/Pacific Dunes/Trails?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2005, 12:29:25 PM »
Dan:  There is a lot more to do in Las Vegas than in Bandon.   :)

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2005, 03:17:14 PM »
Plus, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas 8).
Mr Hurricane

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2005, 04:07:25 PM »

Of course, there’s real grass on the course itself — all par-70, 7,042 yards of it.
And most every square foot is memorable, if not Shadow Creek spectacular. Because other than the Fazio factor, it’s tough to compare the two tracks. Shadow was drawn on a blank, desert canvas with few restrictions to stand in the way of Fazio’s eye and imagination. Wynn Golf Club, on the other hand, was tucked into 100 fewer acres (only 130) on a property that also needed a few extra squares of dirt for the remainder of Wynn’s $2.7 billion resort, which includes a 50-story twer and a giant, pine-covered, waterfall-cascading mountain.

The course itself is classic Fazio, with glimpses of his best West work, from the Lakes Course at nearby Primm Valley to the tree-spotted mountainsides of The Presee above the Monterey Peninsula and Shady Canyon in foothills of Orange County.

Fairways are relatively generous, with many bunkers and relocated full-grown trees to spice up club selection just a little bit. The greens are often large targets, but Fazio’s subtle ridges call for precise iron play, lest you face a few Stratosphere-style roller-coaster rides to bogey or double.

“It has a spectacular interior feel,” Fazio says, a sentiment echoed by most players we talked with. “You have some of this urban feel in the distance with the ‘space needle’ downtown, and you can see a couple of buildings. But on your approach shots or when you’re standing on the greens, when you’re down in those areas, you see almost nothing except golf and the creeks and the lakes and the fairways.”

I was able to get this small amount of information about the golf course from a very long article.  This guy is obviously not a golf writer, much less a writer.  He knows how to discuss banana filled french toast which I am interested in.


I did like the following,

"For a man who tends to every detail during the design process, such talk doesn’t faze Fazio, who says he hasn’t had any talks with Wynn about the future of the golf course.
“That’s only logical,” he told Fairways & Greens just after Wynn Las Vegas opened to the public in May. “In Las Vegas, things change. And what could be more exciting than doing another golf course for Steve Wynn? If he did put buildings there ... certainly he loves golf, so that must mean he’ll go out and build another golf course some other place, so how bad would that be?”".

Does Tom Fazio think Wynn would hire him for a 3rd golf course?  

When is Brad or Whitten going to review the course!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 04:08:29 PM by Joel_Stewart »

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2005, 06:11:08 PM »
....this site can get tiresome a la Fazio bashing ....for bigger minds it really is possible to admire and find interest in Doak, C+C etc. AND Fazio's talented group........it takes the same amount of creativity to build a Shadow Creek as a Pacific Dunes...
« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 06:37:15 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2005, 06:16:36 PM »
........it takes the same amount of creativity to build a Shadow Creek as a Pacific Dunes..........

Does it really?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2005, 06:37:05 PM »
Paul is correct--I played both Hudson National and Galloway National last week and enjoyed both of them. Fazio does do some excellent work.

I will not hesitate to call a bad Fazio course just that, or explain what I think it's shortcomming are...let's all play Wynn first before we speak.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2005, 10:23:21 PM »
Paul Cowley,

One would think that the cognoscente would at least play the golf course before passing judgement on it.

I wonder what the critics of Fazio have to say about his work on the 10 hole (short) course at Pine Valley ?

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2005, 11:48:10 PM »


George, with all due respect, I think Tom Doak might even concur with my statement.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 11:52:04 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2005, 12:07:56 AM »
I wonder what the critics of Fazio have to say about his work on the 10 hole (short) course at Pine Valley ?

I would say you don't give enough credit to the co-designer Ernie Ransome or to Gordon Brewer.   I have always thought it was odd that the 4th hole which is one of two non copy cat holes is the best hole on the course?

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2005, 04:39:52 PM »
Joel Stewart,

O Gordon Brewer had nothing to do with the design work.

What holes or features did Ernie Ransome design ?

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2005, 05:53:08 PM »
it would be nice  if not enough people would fork over the $500 and they had to lower the price to increase demand

$500!!!

come on, what a joke

not even Pebble, one of our greatest courses that's hosted Opens , costs that much
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Steve_Roths

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2005, 10:14:51 PM »
Pebble is $425, add caddy and you are at the $500 sticker price.  And for that you get 6 great holes of golf and 12 others that are not so great.  As for Wynn, I am not sure if its worth $500 or $50.  I am guessing that it's more for the high rollers than the GCA crowd.  Even if they don't get much play I don't see them lowering the price.  If anything they will raise them.  

The best course with high greens fee is Pinehurst #2.  In my opinion it is the best bang for the high buck.

Chris Perry

Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2005, 03:18:53 PM »
Am I correct in thinking Wynn tore down the Desert Inn property and constructed a new hotel and golf course where the old one used to be?

If so, why? There was nothing wrong with the Desert Inn, and the first hotel there that needs to be bulldozed and rebuilt is the Imperial, IMO.  

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2005, 03:26:22 PM »
Chris:

Wynn is a very smart guy and I would expect this Casino will make big bucks.

Cary
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jfaspen

Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2005, 05:10:55 PM »
Will this course have a membership, like shadow creek? or be entirely dependant on daily fee play?

I imagine it will be used to attract high rollers and as a comp for said players.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wynn Las Vegas Review
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2005, 10:50:00 AM »
When you get to Vegas, you'll see more than a few women with silicone that will get your motor running ;D
« Last Edit: May 23, 2005, 10:50:46 AM by cary lichtenstein »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta