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johnk

Short game test
« on: May 20, 2005, 01:20:20 AM »
Imagine you are offered the following bet:

Your and your opponent will play an 18 hole round - with each player starting each hole from a spot chosen by his opponent that lies within 5 yards of the green.

In other words, on each hole, you choose the most difficult spot you can within 5 yards of the green and drop your opponent's ball.  He then has to play from that spot and keeps score until he holes out.

I came up with this idea at Pasatiempo, and was trying to think of a good over/under number for a 10hcp player with a decent short game.  My guess is that it would be hard to break 60.

Simple example of why I think that.  On #18, I'd drop the ball in the back bunker, close to the front lip.  Getting down in 4 would basically be a par from there.

So the question is: Can you think of a course with a higher par for this game than Pasatiempo?

ed_getka

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Short game test
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2005, 02:30:15 AM »
Kingsley Club and Lost Dunes come to mind immediately. Given that Tom Doak's stated goal is to not 3-putt on LD's greens, just imagine starting off from a tough lie.
   
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Ted Kramer

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Short game test
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2005, 10:26:02 AM »
I'd take the over if the line was 60 for a 10 handi all day long.
And to answer your question, Augusta would destroy a 10 from the toughest areas around the greens.

-Ted
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 10:29:21 AM by Ted Kramer »

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Short game test
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2005, 11:23:14 AM »
Winged Foot - either course
Crystal Downs
Prairie Dunes
Friars Head
Alpine CC

Dave_Miller

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Short game test
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2005, 11:36:05 AM »
Winged Foot - either course
Crystal Downs
Prairie Dunes
Friars Head
Alpine CC

You can add Pine Valley and Merion to this list.
Best
Dave

George Pazin

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Short game test
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2005, 11:49:35 AM »
Winged Foot - either course
Crystal Downs
Prairie Dunes
Friars Head
Alpine CC

You can add Pine Valley and Merion to this list.
Best
Dave

Oakmont as well.

You could probably add a bunch of Florida and Phoenix courses, if you drop into water or desert. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 16
Re:Short game test
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2005, 12:25:32 PM »
Pine Valley would be the hardest BY FAR.  If you're playing in the afternoon once the greenside hazards have seen some traffic, you could shoot a million.

Lost Dunes is not even close.  Yes its greens are severe, but most of the areas around the greens are gentle ... I often get up and down from off the greens.  Par for me there would be about 45.

Crystal Downs would be very tough if the greens are fast; I could put you in a few places where it would be very difficult not to chip or putt off the front of the green and down a bank.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 12:26:38 PM by Tom_Doak »

Mark_Fine

  • Total Karma: -15
Re:Short game test
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2005, 03:02:59 PM »
Pine Valley would be brutal, however, Winged Foot West is one of the toughest up and down courses in the country bar none.  If you short side yourself, you're done.  

Rob_Waldron

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Short game test
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2005, 03:17:31 PM »
How about Pinehurst #2? When the ball was dropped 5 yards from the green it would always end up about 20 yards away!