[JESII]

Could Melbourne be considered the #1 destination for high quality golf in the world?

What other location is its equal? What courses?

If you were taking a 7-10 day golf trip, and travel time and expense were not a consideration, would Melbourne be the #1 destination for an American golfer?

For those that know, what are the top 5 or 10 courses in Melbourne and within a couple hourse drive?

[George Pazin]

Check out the "In My Opinion" section. Matt Cohn wrote a terrific piece about his trip to Australia that should have some of the details you're looking for.

Let me know if you need someone to carry you bag(s).

[THuckaby2]

JES:

I'd have to guess we have some potential equals here in the US, and they definitely do in Scotland and Ireland.

But it's gonna depend on how you define this... that is, how far from the city center one is allowed to go to meet your definition of "golf destination".  I'm not 100% familiar with where things lie in Melbourne.  If it has 5-6 top-100 type courses right there in the city limits, then it might be #1.  

But the greater SF Bay Area (including Monterey) is always going to be tough to beat, as would be Long Island, NY (if access is assumed to be not an issue).  Pinehurst has to be up there also.  Then any of several clusters in Scotland will compete... As will the greater London area....as will Ireland, because the whole island can be circled in 7-10 days, giving a world-class course each day....

In any case I'd have to guess Melbourne is AMONG the world's top golf destinations, however one does this.  But #1?  That's a tough call.

TH

[Pete Buczkowski]

JES - I would agree with you.  Australia is #1 on my wish list, not just for golf, but as a vacation destination.  

[Tom_Doak]

The top 10 courses around Melbourne, which I won't try to put in order:

Royal Melbourne (East) and (West)
Kingston Heath
Metropolitan
Commonwealth
Woodlands
Yarra Yarra
Victoria
The National (Moonah)
St. Andrews Beach (Gunnamatta)

Barnbougle Dunes is a one-hour flight and a one-hour drive but a must if you get that far.

Is it the top golf destination in the world?  I would say only in the winter when most other destinations are too cold.  A list of ten courses within two hours of London would win an interclub match by 7:3, and provide more variety to boot.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I have not had the pleasure of Melbourne yet, but I have to agree with Tom D that the area around London would be very hard to beat..when you consider all the courses within a one hour drive, it is mind boggling how many great courses there are.
Unfortunately most americans miss out on this with their desire to confine  trips to links golf, two seperate trips are required...how about a London trip with a bunch of GCA'ers..one that the wives could certainly enjoy as well.

[HamiltonBHearst]

Tom Huckaby

Why would access only be an issue on LI or in the metro NY area?  Seems like it is an issue in most every place.  Also, please clue me in on the top five in the Pinehurst area, I must have missed them.  I suspect Boston,chicago,philadelphia,la metro areas are all better.

[THuckaby2]

Ham:

Access would be an issue at all of these without a doubt.  I'd just say it's particularly important on Long Island.  

Pinehurst just seemed to me like it might compete, just with #2 there, Mid-Pines, the many other courses there.  Hell I can't do a top 5, I've never been there.  So OK, perhaps scratch that one.  And yes, again assuming access is not an issue, each of the metro areas you mention would likely be superior.  Please understand I was not attempting to compile a comprehensive list, but rather just cite some examples off the top of my head that at the very least compete with Melbourne, if not surpass it.

I guess I'll be more careful.  I forgot how much I am under your scrutiny.

 

[HamiltonBHearst]

Tom H.

Not sure that you need to be more careful, but certainly Golf digest needs to be more careful.  

[THuckaby2]

Hmmmm... this is the clearest clue yet as to your true identity... you don't have the same "methinks he doth protest too much" pathological aversion to GD that Paul Richards does, now do you?

 

[RE Blanks]

Don't forget that Deal, RSTG, Princes, & Rye are just over an hour and a half from the great courses of the greater London area.

[JESII]

Thanks for the input thus far, Mr Doak provides a list that from reputation would be hard for me to equal on the state side.

Tom or MWP,
Please expand on the London group, this is very interesting to me, as I'm the typical culprit of thinking only of the coast courses.

As to my initial intent, and to answer Tom Huckaby's question, If I were to travel to a location and stay in the same bed every night (travel up to a couple of hours by car) what would be the best place to go for about 10 rounds.

p.s. an edit from that original is that once on location, all travel would be by car.

Tom,
Thanks for the Barnbougle Dunes tip.

[David_Tepper]

We have talked about this before on other threads, but I think the 75 miles of coastline from Liverpool to Blackpool in England could be the best (and most overlooked) stretch of links golf in the world -

Royal Birkdale
Royal Liverpool (Hoylake)
Royal Lytham St. Anne's
Formby
Hillside
Southport Ainsdale
Wallasey
West Lancashire
Hesketh

The first 3 courses are in the Open rota. The first 5 course are ranked within the top 40 of the Top 100 in GB&I in the November, 2004 issue of Golf World. That is pretty strong stuff.

[THuckaby2]

JES:

(risking Hammy's wrath)

Hmmm... one could base one's self in Santa Cruz, CA and travel by car no more than 90 minutes to each of:

Cypress Point
Pebble Beach
Monterey Peninsula CC Shore
MPCC Dunes
Spyglass Hill
Pasatiempo
San Francisco GC
Olympic Club

Then add in two more to make it 10, from a laundry list that includes Spanish Bay, Lake Merced GC, Stanford, Half Moon Bay, The Preserve, California CC, etc.  Either that or do multiple rounds at Pebble or Cypress or SFGC or Olympic...

Methinks that competes with Melbourne at the very least.

I'm thinking Long Island competes also...

I'm no expert on London area, but I did mention that (first, before the others, I might add) and I'd have to guess you'd have no problem getting 10 great rounds in there also, given what Doak said here and what others have said before.

Near Philadelphia you've got some incredible heavyweights at the top then fantastic depth below that....

Near LA you have 3-4 real great ones, but I'm not sure about the deptht to get it to 10 (sorry Hammy).

One can easily stay in Edinburgh and drive to:

St. Andrews Old/New/Eden
Carnoustie
Kingsbarns
Muirfield
Gullane No. 1
N. Berwick West
Turnberry
Troon Championship
Prestwick
Western Gailes

Those are all within 90 minutes by car from central Edinburgh.

That's how I see all this anyway - without doing any research and again just off the top of my head, Hammy.  

Melbourne area is tough to beat, and would be great for sure... but I'm still not convinced it's No. 1.

TH

[HamiltonBHearst]

Tom H.

I am not the one who said that Pinehurst NC area could compare to Melbourne.  I threw out the other metro  areas as clearly superior in my mind.  

3-4 great ones in LA?  Hell Rustic Canyon would be top 3 in Pinehurst.

[THuckaby2]

Hammy:

So OK, my Pinehurst knowledge sucks.  I'll stipulate to that one.  I thought I already had.

But how about you tell me the 10 rounds within 90 minutes of LA that are gonna compare to Melbourne?  Palm Desert is too far away.  And if you say LACC North 3 times, Riv 3 times, etc. that is most definitely cheating.  Do that and Clementon, NJ wins - play Pine Valley 10 times.  

And remember, your standard you set yourself is "clearly superior".

I stand ready to be educated.  I always am.

 

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

David
I totally agree on the Lancashire courses, of which you can add several solid inland courses as well,
As far as London goes, here are but a few
Walton Heath..two courses
Sunningdale...two courses
Wentworth
THe Berkshire
St Georges Hill
Worplesdon
Pullborough
Blackmoor
North Hants..Flint
Chart Hills
Camberley Heath

That is just a sampling

[JESII]

Thanks Michael,

Can I assume your sentiments are the same, with regards to variety, for these London courses as Tom Doak? You have said you are not familiar with the Australian courses, so I'm not asking for an "interclub match" type analysis, simply your impressions of this grouping.

Is it safe to assume that the variety of the courses in the Melbourne area might be a bit lacking (ie; playing conditions or architecture)? Again, this is only an assumption of mine right now.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The variety in the London courses can be quite startling even within a few miles of eachother.
You can go from sandy sub soil to a more parkland feel within a mile or so as experienced with Wentworth versus Sunningdale...but equally good cousrse for their respective styles.
I must stress as I am sure Tom D would agree, there are proabaly another 20 or so you could easily add to the list within an hours drive.
It may not compete in stature with the Northern California or Ebinburgh vicinity, but the quality is certainly there.
Access is usuallt easier as well, that is a big difference when comparing to the north eastern US cities and there quality courses.
Certainly the Philly and Chicago and New York/Long Island areas are very rich in quality courses, but access is rather limited.
As to which of all the discussed areas should be number one...too hard to judge..just visit them ALL

[JESII]

The variety in the London courses can be quite startling even within a few miles of eachother.
You can go from sandy sub soil to a more parkland feel within a mile or so as experienced with Wentworth versus Sunningdale...but equally good cousrse for their respective styles.
I must stress as I am sure Tom D would agree, there are proabaly another 20 or so you could easily add to the list within an hours drive.
Thank You[/color]

As to which of all the discussed areas should be number one...too hard to judge..just visit them ALL
All in good time, if I could be so lucky.[/color]

[Sean_A]

Michael WP is right, Greater London has to top the bill.  He left off:

Swinley
One more at Wentworth
3 at Woburn
One more at Berkshire
West Hill
Hankley Common
The Grove
Ashdown Forest
The Wisely
Woking
Addington
There are at least 5 others that could be mentioned as well, but Blackheath should not be forgotten!

Not to mention the corses down Bournemouth way (a bit far away, but just about doable):

Ferndown
Broadstone
Parkstone
Purbeck

And of course Kent:

Princes
Deal
Sandwich
Littlestone
Rye

There are probably 3 courses on the list which would require some inside help to play.  On a list of 30 or so courses, it isn't a worry.  I find it difficult to believe there is a better destination for a combination of great courses, variety and a great city anywhere in the world.  Mind you, the green fees in OZ may be significantly cheaper!

Ciao

Sean

[THuckaby2]

Sean:

I too think London has to be right near the top re this. Base it on total quantity of reachable great courses and it wins hands down.  BUT... the rules seem to be Top 10 only, all within driving distance.  As I look at this, I'm very tempted to put each of SF Bay Area and Edinburgh as superior to London... if not Melbourne itself.  Disagree?

TH

[Sean_A]

Tom

I am not sure which top ten you mean, but London is awfully difficult to beat.  There are 10 courses listed (not including Kent) that I would match with anybody's top ten near a world class city.  As for depth, well, its a no brainer.  London isn't my favorite city (it has been a slow-growing love affair), but I certainly can keep myself busy there for a few weeks.

I like Edinburgh loads.  I also think East Lothian is a fantastic golf destination (I will be there in June), but the depth is sorely lacking compared to London.  There is Muirfield, North Berwick and perhaps Gullane 1.  I will give it to you for the sake of argument.  St. Andrews, Kingsbarns, Carnoustie (which I think is a bit dodgy anyway) and Gleneagles are in the same boat as Kent for London.  If they are a daytrip, then surely Kent is for London.  Other than TOC, I would rather play Sandwich than any of the others.  Once the big guns are done, one is left with the Dunbars etc.  These courses are not in the same league as Pulborough and The Addington etc etc.

SF has serious access issues for some of the top courses.  It is hard to compare it to London if one can't play the courses.  

Huckster (though I quite like Huckaby, reminds me of the cover of Neil Young's Comes A Time album) I'll tell ya what, let us plan a trip for all these areas.  With wine and song we shall then decide upon the merits of each!

Ciao

Sean

[THuckaby2]

Sean:

Another rule was that access didn't matter - we are to assume that all courses can be played.

Based on that, give me any Top 10 you choose from London area, and I'll stack each of SF Bay Area and Edinburgh against it and at the very least I don't think London clearly wins.  Again, take it farther than 10 and London wins hands down.  But just top 10... well... I don't see it.

But you're right in any case, a tour of any of these would be VERY satisfying.

Re my name, well... I've never been called "Huckster" by anyone outside of this forum.  "Huckaby" does seem to work well enough for most people, and gives either a Dickensian feel, or they like to rhyme things with it.  I've never made the Neil Young connection, but I kinda like that also!

TH

[Paul_Turner]

I will find out how Amsterdam stacks up, or perhaps Brussels; whichever is more central.  These countries are so small, just about everything is within a 2 hour drive.

Kennemer, Hague, Pan, Eindhoven, Spa, Noordwijke, Zoute and Ravenstein are supposed to be the best.  A nice mix of terrain, I believe.

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