From the website:

"The Golf course underwent a few modifications in the late fall of 2004. The front right section of the green on #13 (Par 3 across the ravine) was lowered approximately one foot, resulting in a more receptive green and more accessible hole location. The sod walled bunker that fronted that front right portion is now two smaller sod walls, and the sod walled bunker on the left front of the green was wrapped around in front of the green. The look from the tee is awesome, and shots landing on that front right section will now stay on the green, rather than kicking to the back and sometimes off the green.

The green on Hole #14, the short narrow Par 4, was modified as well. The back left portion of the green had a large swale that funneled many approach shots off the back and into a collection area. That large swale was “filled in”, so now approach shots landing on the front to middle of the green should remain on the green.

The green on Hole #5, the Par 5 that runs to the lake, was also slightly altered. The right center portion was raised slightly, to allow approach shots to stay on the green rather than run through and into the fringe leaving a very awkward pitch/chip.

We are excited about the changes and hope they lead to a more fair and playable course, as well as speed up play!!!"

Interesting changes, #13(Old #9) can be a brute depending on the teebox and wind, the swale on the back of that bunker definitely would push you off the back if you landed on it. I can't recall the area of 14 they are talking about but it's a fairly severe greensite. Most interesting to me is #5 which (used to be) a biarritz green set almost perpendicular to the fairway on a par 5. Warren Henderson has commented on here before about AB, be interesting to get his take on the changes - I seem to remember a dialog here between Tom Doak and Warren regarding the severity of #13/#9.

FYI - through May 8 Greenfees are $75 -- $100 off the high season rates.

Buck

Jonathan,

I'm a huge fan of Arcadia. I think the green complexes are fantastic, it has all the strategy in the world, a first class routing, all the teeth any scratch could want, wow factors off the chart & nothing I can point to which would not make it a must play.

Is it deservance of a ranking that high? Can't comment to that, but I do think it's a fantastic course.

Being in the area and short of Crystal Downs, what do you think is better?

    Mr. Foley, I as well am a big fan of Arcadia.  It is just about unbeatable in the "WOW" factor category.  The views of Lake Michigan are absolutely unbeatable.

    56th on the Greatest in America list was a little high in my book, but it is certainly a great public course in the United States.  The changes they made will make it more playable for the average golfer and that is definately the target market.  

    As for courses that are better, if you haven't been to Forest Dunes Golf Club, Roscommon, Michigan it is well worth a trip.  It is a Tom Weiskopf design and was supposed to go private this year.  However, in checking their website, it appears that they will be public again this year.  Forest Dunes has a very clever routing and was compared to both Pine Valley, which fits, because of the waste areas and sandy pine forest terrain, and Augusta National, because of the shape and style some of its bunkers.  I will admit, the Augusta comparison is a bit of a stretch.

    I think they are having trouble establishing a membership.  However, in speaking with the head pro last fall, once they get a certain number of members, which was quite large if I recall, they are planning another course which he told me was to be designed by Coore and Crenshaw.  If Forest Dunes can establish a membership and get that C&C course, it would make for an amazing private destination.  But as far as I know, it is open to the public again this year.

    But back to Arcadia.  It certainly is a great course, and I have not been to Bay Harbor in Northern Michigan, but it to looks to be worth the trip.  It is a group of 27 holes that has some views of Petoskey Bay and would also fit your palet.  Not as linksy, not even the links nine, as Arcadia, but also has the Quarry and Preserve Nines to suit any golfers preference.

    So in conclusion.  Arcadia Bluffs, Bay Harbor, and Forest Dunes.  These are some destinations that would be worth the trip.

    Mr. Foley, OH I mean John,  Arcadia is probably about 2 to 2 and half hours from Forest Dunes which is just NE of Roscommon.  Like I said before, definately two of the best in the state.

    As to why they changed the routing, I'm not positive.  But if I recall when I played it in the Fall of 2003, didn't the tenth hole end up aways from the clubhouse.  I'm not sure but I know 9 is that Par 3 with the large tree on the right and ten is the par 4 with the aiming post on the right.  Its just before the long par 5 down towards the lake.  I would assume the clubhouse makes more food and beverage money this way, and it is more convenient to stop by at the turn then it was before.  Not positive, but that would be my guess.

People who pay big greenfees don't like 3 par 5's in the first five holes....did they correct that.   And don't tell me it is stupid not to like something like that because people just don't..

Must be the fact that raters don't pay that makes them like it so much. I hate the 3 par 5's in the first 5 holes so much I've only paid to play it 10-12 times.

Don't waste your time with Bay Harbor unless you're in Petoskey -- some pretty cool holes on the Quarry 9 but when you look at what they had to work with it should have been as good as Whistling Straits or Arcadia and it isn't anywhere close. Plus it's considerably more expensive than Arcadia.

Interesting how well AB did in Golf Digest compared to Kingsley. Golfweek has them ranked pretty close. I seem to remember Whitten raving about Kingsley -- he must not have much sway with the group.

Interesting routing change.  I wonder if Warren Henderson had that idea as an option all along.  Going over it in my mind, I think it may be a better route.  

The 3 par 5s in first 5 holes wasn't really something that jumped in my mind as a negative when I played there.  However, the trek down towards the lake on 3-4-5 is more noticable as a negative as they play the same direction.  The same direction is compensated by the interesting approaches that are varied widely in those three holes.

I'm not sure re-routed is the right terminology, re-numbered is probably better. No holes were changed just the order they are played.

OK, Buck......you can pick that nit if you want, I guess. When I say that I took a different route to work, it doesn't neccesarily follow that I ripped up and relocated the road. I'll try to choose my words more carefully next time.

steve

Steve-
It was a little nit picky I guess but for those unfamiliar with Arcadia calling it a rerouting may be a little confusing.

Ken  -
I remember that thread as well. They have a bunch of options with the number of holes that start and end around the clubhouse.

   We all have our opinions and thats what makes this site great.  By the way, I did not compare CDCC to Arcadia.  I do have just one question, why do you bring up Doak's name???  What does he have to do with anything!!!

The differences and similarities among Crystal, Arcadia and Kingsley can be summarized through the following parallels

Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Pierce Brosnan

or:

Jackie Kennedy, Pam Anderson, Gwyneth Paltrow

respectively

Having had the chance to experience CD, KC, and AB in a three day period, I agree that to compare them is wasted energy.  They are 3 very different courses.  

CD the classic, has generally smaller devilish greens, affecting the approach shots differently.  At CD, I think the tee shots are more finicky.  It is more the tactitians game than the other "big lot" courses at AB and KC.  There, one can bust the tee ball to a wider field of options off the tee, and play to bigger, yet very undulating greens.  

They all have some greens that border on being over the top.  CD has its 8th, 10th, 11th and 17th, and boomer 8th (though I don't see that one as over the top as much as wild and exciting)  

AB has its 5th, old 13th new 9th (reported to be softened).  KC has the 13th, 9th, 4th.  Those at the 2 new courses are modern, multi-tiered big scale design, more so than CDs size and false fronted, bag of tricks.

I don't know how a fellow can go wrong when in that area, if you only got to play one of them.  They are all a blast, IMHO.