[Andy Doyle]

In several threads we've discussed the fact that even for the pros, the lowest scoring average in relation to par is on the par 5 holes and the highest average is on par 3's.  Why are Executive courses considered to be so easy?

The course I play most frequently in Atlanta is Charlie Yates, an executive muni course that was built as part of the East Lake community redevelopment.  It is a par 58 (4 par 4's and 14 par 3's), with par 3's ranging from 107 to 205 yards.  I love playing there because it's convenient to my house, it's inexpensive, I can walk 9 in under 1.25 hours and 18 under 3 hours, and it has beautiful greens.

I mostly play there alone because most of my golf buddies won't play there regularly - they want to play "real" golf courses.  I played there a couple of weeks ago with a buddy that has a handicap within 1 or 2 strokes of mine.  I beat him by 14 strokes in our straight-up match.  When I suggested that we should play there more regularly (as a tactful way of saying he needs to work on his short game), he said he preferred playing on full-length courses because they were more challenging!?

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[Steve_ Shaffer]

See Ran's write up on Walnut Lane, a Philadelphia muni:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/walnutlane1.html

[THuckaby2]

Because not only are people wrong, they are stupid.

The shorter the course is, the less shots are hit, and thus the less advantage the good player has.  Simple.  Want a fighting chance to beat a scratch player?  Take him to a pitch and putt.

TH

[Andy Doyle]

I hadn't seen Ran's write-up on Walnut Lane, but he might just as well have been writing about Charlie Yates (except for the poor conditioning - CY is consistently in excellent shape, especially the greens).

In a typical round there, I hit every club off the tee, from SW to driver and everything in between.  The only club I usually leave in the car is my 3W.

The yardage on the course is deceptive.  Number 7 is only 173 yards from the back tee marker, however, the tee box is about 30 yards long, and the hole plays about 75 feet uphill.  When the hole is cut back left, it takes a well hit 5W for me to get the ball to the back tier.

[mike_malone]

 The Montchanin course at DuPont C.C. is no piece of cake. Many of the approaches are narrow and  have demanding greens.

 The two Pitch and Putts I saw on the back of Lahinch and in Doolin looked frightening.

  Peco's course ,outside Philly, which claims both Flynn and Ross lineage is a blast and again has small and well protected greens. I'm not sure about the designer designation. Does anyone know?

  Maybe the "easy" label comes from the mistaken impression that because I shoot in the 70's versus the 80's it is easier.

[Mike McGuire]

Their small footprint makes it possible for lighting.

The links of Naples provided us some nightime fun on a recent golf trip.

It used to be the lighted pitch and putt in Orlando ...the famous million dollar mully. Sadly plowed under for a go cart track.

McG

[John Keenan]

I have always felt that this size and style of course is well suited to golf today. You can play it in a short period of time and have a great time of it. No 4 hour rounds on these tracks.

They have opened a course like this in Dublin CA called Dublin Ranch. It is a par 63 and measures 4880 from the gold or back tees and 4000 from the white's. Well maintained course and bring your gme this is a great test of all the clubs in your bag.

I have not played it but the Peter Hay Course at PB is said to be quite good. Those in the O club how is the 9 that you added?

RYD  

[THuckaby2]

JK:

The Peter Hay course at PB is nothing more than a quite mudane pitch and putt and calling it quite good would mean that ANY golf is good.  I know I personally believe that, I just didn't think anyone else did.  

The Cliffs 9 at OClub is fantastic, however.  Many different distances, great greens, beautiful.

Dublin Ranch was very well-liked by my fellow course-raters when they did the rating there last summer... but I too haven't played it yet.  Curious if that one is worth upsetting the marriage for.  So far it's not, but the more I hear about it, the more my wife might have to understand.  

In any case, we sure do need more of these!

TH

[John Keenan]

Mr. Huck

Thanks for the input on PH as I have not played it but had only heard about it.

On DR great place for me but I live in Danville I would not upset my marriage for it as there are better courses in the East Bay to enjoy.

If you do choose to play it let me know I would love to join you.

[THuckaby2]

JK:  sounds good to me!

I do get around, so have played basically everywhere there is to play in the East Bay... just haven't been to this new DR yet.  It intrigues me....

TH

[Kyle Harris]

The Short Course at Cedarbrook Hill in Wyncote, PA is generally considered to be one of the better Par Three courses in the Philadelphia area.

Also, there are rumors and some evidence that Tillinghast may have had a hand in the design.

[George Pazin]

One of my old bosses used to always say "Perception is reality". I personally have never really believed or lived this, but it seems somewhat true in relation to golf courses.

People don't want to play "harder" - they want to think it's harder, and, more importantly, have other people think they play tough courses. The same phenomenon is at work when people soften contours to get greens to be able to play "faster". They want speed through short grass, not contour or pitch.

I'm not sure if this means people are stupid - maybe self-deluding would be more accurate.

And I can say this because I live in a constant state of self-delusion.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The par 3 course at Pine Valley would fit into this category and is great.
Unlike most par 3 courses,on some of the holes you do not get to use a tee, as the shot represents a corresponding approach shot to a par four or five from the main course..very clever actually and remarlably similar in appearence to teh actual "real thing"

It is a very good test of golf and like the others mentioned here, par is a pretty good score.

[Andy Doyle]

Self-deluding is right.  This buddy of mine shot +20 on a par 58 course.  He would be unbelievably pissed if he didn't break 90 on a "real" course, yet continues to believe that the executive course is too easy.

I shouldn't try to hard to convince people - I can still drop by Charlie Yates after work on a nice spring day and have the course practically to myself.

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[Mark_Rowlinson]

What do these good executive courses cost to build and maintain as compared with a full-length course of similar standard?  

[Doug Siebert]

They are considered easy because for the 20 or higher handicap (i.e., great majority of golfers) they are.  Not just in score, but in how many over par they are.

[Matt_Cohn]

A lot of people say that par-3 and executive courses allow players to work on their "short game".

Isn't this backwards?

On a short, easy golf course, you're going to hit many more greens than usual, right? Good players will hit most or nearly all of the greens. So you hit fewer chips, pitches, and sand shots than on a long course where you're missing most of the greens in regulation.

So your short game actually gets less of a workout on a par-3 or executive course. Right?

[Doug Siebert]

Depends.  A lot of those short courses are built on the cheap, and thus have VERY small greens.  There are a couple courses (not really executive at par 34/9 and 70/18 but both under 6000 yards) in the area I live where the greens range in size from perhaps 800 to 1200 sq ft, and are push ups.  Even hitting wedge to greens like that you will miss a lot of them unless you are way handier with it than most.  And given that the greens are about the only thing irrigated on those courses, when its dry you aren't hitting from the best lies and aren't exactly left with an easy up and down when you miss.

[Jason McNamara]

Great fun, they play quicker, are shorter with smaller greens and narrow as I said above. golf needs more of them.

Audubon Park in New Orleans was recently turned into an exec course - par 62 or thereabouts.  Tiger, have you gotten over there?

Jason

[Mike_Cirba]

The Short Course at Cedarbrook Hill in Wyncote, PA is generally considered to be one of the better Par Three courses in the Philadelphia area.

Also, there are rumors and some evidence that Tillinghast may have had a hand in the design.

Kyle,

Cedarbrook Hill is the remains of what used to be Cedarbrook Country Club, a Tillinghast design of some reknown that hosted a PGA event.  Ross also made some alterations to the course.

When route 309 expanded, the course lost some property and moved out to Blue Bell.  In the mid 60s, George Fazio created the present routing, which uses a handful of old Tillinghast greens.  

Daniel Wexler's book, "Lost Links", has a map of the original course so it's fairly easy to plot which present greens are Tillie's.  

Speaking of tough, humbling Executive and Par three courses, Wood's Golf Course in Norristown is a par 54 18holer with holes ranging from 80 to 240 yards to smallish greens.  It's always packed, and is generally a "use every club in the bag" kind of place where I guarantee not many people approach par or better.

[James Edwards]

Wentworth, England has a par 3 executive course which I have played a number of times and that seems to be really difficult.  I cant even blame the greens as they are pretty good!  I used to practice there most summers and the amount of times I would be out playing a quick nine and you would see Nick Faldo with his shag bag around one of the greens or on a tee hitting approaches...  They clearly do hold some weight if they are good, and it definately puts the premium on your iron play for 9 holes..!

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