In the Hotchkin thread Tom MacWood said that a couple of this architect's courses in South Africa were considered to be some of the best in the world.

By whom?

We certainly have our own type of hype today from Fazio's "My Best course is my next one" to Dye's "God gave me the land and I just found the holes" type of thing.

But in the old days the hype seemed to be things like the "best in the world" or "one of the best in the country" and in some cases "the most expensive" or "no expense was spared".

And then there's Ross's curious remark on opening day at Aronimink that may be considered a marketing gaff that could be construed as begging the question of where had Ross been during construction?

"I intended Aronimink to be my masterpiece but until today I did not realize I built better than I knew"

There sure weren't any magazine rankings like we have today and back in the old days the best actual rankings of the "best" and the "greatest" seemed to come from the opinions of other architect's than the one who built the course.

NGLA, Lido, Pine Valley in the US seemed to be on the top in the opinion of most all "other" architects in the old days.

I wonder what courses would be at the top in the opinion of most "other" architects (other than a course's architect)  today? It seems that the ASCGA and other architect associations are just trade associations and very chary of architects publicly commenting on "other" architects courses in this way. Not good for general business I guess.

We have some pretty shameless hype today but it probably doesn't match some of the shameless hype of architects in the old days.

A great example is my own course, Gulph Mills G.C. In 1916 Ross promised it to be "...one of the best inland courses in this country and that it will undoubtedly be a much superior course to any around Philadelphia."

Yeah, right Donald!  

(By the way, Ross had already been on a day trip to PVGC and proclaimed it to be perhaps the best course in the world and he conveniently forgot about Merion East about five miles away. However, Ross's remark was merely to a friend he went down to PVGC with and was apparently not for public consumption)

What were some of the other shameless hypes from architects in the old days, and better yet, what were some of their quotable opinions of the courses of other architects?

And secondly which architects from the old days and today are the most resistant to hyping their own courses?

In the old days William Flynn seemed to rarely hype his own courses.....how about today's architects who hardly ever hype theirs?

(One time Wayne and I asked Flynn's daughter if he had an personal favorites and she actually thought about that for a while and came back with "....not really, he seemed to like them all and just went on to the next one".)

 

Wish I could take credit for the quote but Bob Cupp sums it up in his interview "exclusivity is earned not purchased".
And with that said the  "test of time" will be the determining factor as to who was good or bad.  
Let's see...when did Van Gogh become good?
You got to remember the general public is like mushrooms...
How many people you know place art in their homes or offices based on the artist more than whether they like it...most IMHO

Like art - something becomes much more beautiful when one knows that lots of other people think it's beautiful.

This goes back to comments about how Pinehurst #2 would rank if it were built today.

Quality is a shared concept. And must be shared to become quality at all.

"Don't forget that we've been hearing that Tiger Woods is the Best in the World ever since he was 13.  (Ty Tryon, Michelle Wie...)
Jesus man, smell the coffee. You can't be serious.  Where's the rest of the post?"

redanman:

It's just waiting to be hijacked by you and taken on another of your constant diatribes against Tiger Woods and other young stars!


Would you'all agree or disagree that some of the hype from some of the old guys was every bit as blatant as the hype from some of the greatest hypsters today?

In the days of the architects hyping other architects (1910s-20s) with hype assists from a hand full of great writers, they had all of about 25-50 courses to hype, and a hand full of archies to flatter.  That is a pretty easy universe of hyperbole to manage.

Today, 20,000+ 18 hole, par 70-73 golf courses, countless other 9 hole and deconstructed older courses, now executive length.  Now, several hundred archies and associates, and designer-constructors that blur the line between "architect" and golf course designer.  

There aren't enough hypemeisters around to do all that hyping.  We now have publications of top ranked lists in competition with other publication's lists.  The only thing that distiquishes them is the nature of the hype.

As Mike Y., speaks of, a good marker to distinquish "best in the world" is how long it endures in the world.  Longevity of a course held in high esteem is probably more valid than all the hype in every publication currently manufacturing their own version of "best, ranked, listed".

Now, there is a flaw to longevity as well.  Longevity in the realm of a course being consistently held in high esteem requires stewardship.  Maintenance-meld in sympathetic interpretation and faithfulness to the arcitects intents are key to this puzzle of how to define, "worlds best".  

How many great courses have lost their luster and standing as "worlds best" due to failure to maintain to architect's vision, failure to protect the design from remodellers, and economic realities that the parcel was not viable in the long term?  Even hype didn't save some of the NLE, like those that Dan Wexler had documented in "Missing Links".

TomD:

For hype on your next project (seeing as your fee has risen and your hype factor is expected to rise too) I dare you to say:

"I can make this pig's ear into a silk purse!".

Matter of fact, I challenge you to say that!  

Interesting Tom.  It was not too long ago I think I remember you posting about your distaste for being expected to help sell memberships to a course you architected.  By this latest response it appears you have acquiesced to the expectation of being a promoter.  Perhaps, previously, you were referring to becoming more directly involved in sales.  I'm not sure, because there were no specifics.  Have you changed your tune?

Looking through some of Tillinghast's ads, photo captions and drawing captions might lead one to the conclusion that, in addition to be a master of architecture, he was a master of understatement.

Tom:

I just re-read your post and realized, about ten minutes into it, that my prior post was entirely non-responsive.  

I have absolutely nothing to say about GCA marketing, and, until I either . . . 1) design a course or 2) develop a course; I imagine I'll remain silent on the issue b.c I'm generally not one to cast stones . . ..  But I guess no thought is bad thought, right (unless, of course, it's the thought of a wee-girlie-man named Emmet . . .).

Jason

Dev Emmet's Gay Architecture was the greatest architecture ever built, or that will ever be built.  However, it's somewhat of a misnomer to assume it was all gay...it would be more accurately termed "Bi" architecture, as it didn't particularly discriminate either way.  

To steal a line from Woody Allen, Dev's  bi-architecture doubled your chances of pulling off any given shot, as it essentially offered twice the number of choices and options per hole.  

Don't even get me started on his phallicly-inspired and shaped cross bunkering, or how he knew just how tightly to pinch in a landing area.  Where exactly do you think the phrase "sphincter tightening" came from?  

That little dandy was a friggin genius, and cute as a button, as well.  

Tom,

You're definitely wrong about Devie's "straightness".  Do I have to bring pictures in as evidence?  I'm sure you recall President Teddy's puckered expression while being unexpectedly fondled from behind by our hero?  

I also see you outed Walter Travis.  Would your contention have anything to do with his rather liberal and experimentally playful use of "The Schenectady", a club with "a firm center shaft and large mallet head"?

Speaking of pictures, are you really claiming that Mr. Travis looks anything less than manly?  I don't know how these rumors get started!  

Mike:

I think that photo was taken during that time Walter was pregnant. People thought he just went to Florida for an extended period but there was about six months there when nobody really knew where he was! Take another look and tell me what you think! Walter was definitely not a prudent guy or maybe noone told him it was not a good thing to smoke cigars when you're pregnant!

Actually Tom, Travis achieved what little driving distance his old, flabby body could generate through the centrigual force and inertia of his rather monstrously well-endowed...ummm...member whipping through on his forward hip turn (on full display in the photo above).  

Normally, Travis wore rather long jackets to modestly cover the protuberance, but in this vivid shot from a still frame sequence, his golfing secret is at long last, unsheathed for the world.

I see. No wonder Walter had a tough time with the Europeans. That would be a difficult thing to get through customs.