My reading of the runes of those who know tells me that Coore is the brains of the outfit and Crenshaw is the front man.  We all love "Gentle Ben" but I doubt if any of us would want to spend good money to have him design a golf course all by himself.

BTW--I don't think we are talking "synecdoche" here. This situation is more from the encyclopedia of tragedy than of rhetoric.

If that is true why does one of the only courses Coore ever did by himself get a 2 in Doaks book...Kings Crossing..

John K:  You posted simultaneously with me, so I didn't answer your question ... I only saw King's Crossing in the dirt, and Bill is probably still a bit peeved that I rated it as I did.  But it was just an awful piece of land ... dead flat, very heavy clay, no vegetation, just telephone poles on the horizon.  [Very much like The Rawls Course, but with worse soil.]

He was just happy to have any assignment back then, and it's probably one reason they're so choosy now.

Perhaps Ben's dissapointing performance on the Senior Tour over the last three years (3 top 10's) is evidence that he is spending a lot of time focusing on other projects, namely golf architecture. This would be similar to the lackluster year Graham Marsh had during the construction of Sutton Bay.

TK

Quite obviously some of you don't know the paticulars of Austin Golf Club.

Seventy years from now, HISTORY will tell our great grandchildren just how GREAT Coore AND Crenshaw really were. They will be looked upon with a small handful of others as the best in their field.

Mea maxima culpa!

OK, then......can anybody else answer Michael Moore's question, which is why (outside of the latter parts of this thread), Coore seems to be perceived as the senior partner in C&C, at least in terms of GCA (and on GCA.com)?

Rich,

Basically it is easier for the wanna be architect to associate with the talent of a guy like Bill Coore than Crenshaw.   We will never know what we might do with a piece of land in our hands but most of us have proven what we can't do with a club....If you are going to be someone you are not at least try to get some shoes that fit..

Rich,

That is so wrong...I am surprised you read it that way.   It is my opinion that it is easier for the common man to relate to Coore than Crenshaw...and that is why they try to elevate Coore so as to elevate themselves..

I have always known that as Doak and C&C become more mainstream this board would find ways to tear them down....With Coore and Crenshaw it is really quite simple...call Crenshaw a front man and just another PGA pro who got all the breaks because of his contacts....you can love Coore and pity Crenshaw and still be the smart critic you are.  Now with Doak it gets more complicated.....plus Doak is a friend of the site very much unlike Rees, Fazio or Nicklaus....The stories of Doak saving Sebonack from the likes of Nicklaus and his people are already legendary....the question will be in the end...will Doak save Doak from himself...

the question will be in the end...will Doak save Doak from himself...

One suspects such an endeavor will fall to TEPaul.

It boils down to the concept of partnering. If partner "A" brings 90% of the talent to the table, and partner "B" brings the last 10% that elevates partner "A"'s work to greatness, don't you agree that it is now a true partnership?

I know that if I ever got the chance to partner with true talent, I would relish my role as the partner who contributes that last 10% to bring the whole package to a level of greatness. After all, it is that last 10% that seperates the chaff from the wheat, IMO.

Joe

Tom,

I don't know Bill or Ben, and therefore made my comments in a general sense. I think any partnership that adds up to a wonderful team doesn't need percentages or headlines to make either partner feel justified in their contribution towards the partnership.

Joe

John,

Having the good fortune to spend a lot of time with Ben and Bill on sites as they worked makes me believe that Crenshaw and Morrish would not be as good as Crenshaw & Coore. They have a very special relationship -- both busines and personal, and that applies to all of Crenshaw's business partners. They are nearly all longtime friends that he knows and trusts. Coore may be the best golf course router in the business, but Ben is involved in the whole design process. To put it simply, two class acts make an even better class team.

For example, Crenshaw goes out of his way to know and talk to the whole staff at Augusta during the Masters, including the cooks, the maintenance people etc, etc. I happen to know because I walked down the back of the clubhouse with Ben and watched him call them by name and say hey to all of them. To me he's in a class of his own among Tour players. He (and Bill) are the most humble people I've met anywhere.

I've been undeservably blessed to know them both.