News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Dan_Callahan

Private Courses Under Assault Again
« on: January 12, 2005, 12:44:07 PM »
From Reuters:

Atlanta Golf Club Sparks Battle Over Gay Rights

By Paul Simao

ATLANTA (Reuters) - A new battle in America's fight over gay rights has erupted in Atlanta, cradle of the U.S. civil rights movement, where a golf club is resisting a city order to grant spousal benefits to its gay members.

The defiant stand by the Druid Hills Golf Club has triggered the ire of gay activists in the Deep South and prompted threats of criminal prosecution and fines from officials in the Southern metropolis.

It also comes on the heels of a crushing defeat for gay activists in the nation. Eleven states, including Georgia, passed constitutional amendments banning gay marriage or same-sex unions in the November election.

At the heart of the current conflict in Atlanta is a municipal ordinance that prohibits businesses and other groups dealing with the public from discriminating against gays or their partners.

The private 1,100-member Druid Hills club fell under the scrutiny of city attorneys last year after two gay members complained that their partners were not provided the same privileges as the spouses of heterosexual members.

The club, which is located in a fashionable part of Atlanta, allows members' spouses to use its facilities without being accompanied and to continue doing so for six months after the death of their husband or wife.

It does not extend those benefits to unmarried heterosexual or same-sex couples.



GAYS PUSH FOR ACTION

A city board ruled last year that the club's policies violated its human rights ordinance. Gay activists across the nation have been urging Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin to enforce that decision.

"Non-discrimination ordinances are something fundamental that we have all relied upon for years," said Andrew Borchini, a spokesman for the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) in New York.

"It's a principle for us, and it is being threatened," Borchini added.

Franklin, a Democrat who has strong support in Atlanta's gay and lesbian community, warned the club last month that it could face prosecution in municipal court and be fined up to $90,000 if it did not comply with the ordinance.

Druid Hills responded last month by suing the city in Fulton County Superior Court. The lawsuit argues that the ordinance violates Georgia's gay marriage amendment, which says the benefits of marriage may only be enjoyed by heterosexual couples.

It also seeks undisclosed damages for harm done to the club's reputation as well as legal costs. Emmet Bondurant, the club's attorney, called the city's charges of discrimination "false and baseless."

"Druid Hills treats unmarried same sex couples and unmarried heterosexual couples equally," said Bondurant, who noted that the club allows gays and lesbians to become members.

The club's position has, for some, rekindled memories of the controversy that erupted in 2002 when the Augusta National Golf Club, home to the U.S. Masters, refused to bow to pressure from feminists to change its male-only membership policy.

City officials, who must respond to the lawsuit within 30 days of being served, did not return calls seeking comment. Some of them, however, have told the gay community that the anti-discrimination ordinance may have been poorly crafted and might not withstand a serious court challenge.


BACKLASH POSSIBLE

Coming just months after a heated U.S. election in which gay marriage was a lightning rod for millions of religious conservatives and other voters, the dispute could have far-reaching implications for gays in the United States.

Atlanta is home to the largest gay community in the South.

If the ordinance is upheld, it could trigger a backlash similar to the one seen last year when the Massachusetts Supreme Court ruled gay couples had the right to marry and San Francisco began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Earl Ehrhart, a powerful Republican legislator in Georgia, has promised to push a bill that, if passed, would forbid the state or any local government from penalizing private social groups for engaging in what he describes as lawful expression.

"What these militant homosexuals are seeking is special rights, not equal rights," Ehrhart wrote in a recent editorial in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the city's largest newspaper.

"They want their local ordinances to supersede state and federal law," Ehrhart said.

Casey Wade

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2005, 02:52:27 PM »
I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole!  
Some people are alive simply because it is illegal to shoot them.

Bob_Huntley

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2005, 03:20:11 PM »
Was it Linda Lovelace who said, "I think that these folks should be left alone to live their lives as they see fit, but I do  get irritated when they try to push their demands down our throats. Oops, no it was Oral Roberts.

Jeff Goldman

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2005, 03:28:12 PM »
Bob,

Now that Tommy's porcelain post was deleted, you have dibs on post of the year!
That was one hellacious beaver.

TEPaul

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2005, 03:35:55 PM »
I second that.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2005, 04:05:19 PM »
I am way to liberal minded for my own good sometimes, but isn't the key word in the title of this post...private?

tlavin

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2005, 04:14:03 PM »
The whole "significant other" issue is a slippery pole...er...slope.

Jeff Goldman

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2005, 04:20:24 PM »
Yeah, Terry, what do I do if the near Mrs. wants to do one of those "pilots" classes at the club?   ;D
That was one hellacious beaver.

SPDB

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2005, 04:36:30 PM »
I'd suggest that this thread be deleted.

tlavin

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2005, 06:08:38 PM »
It is a little ridiculous for clubs to give "significant others" the same privileges as spouses, IMHO.  You wind up with people who try to cheat the system.  At Medinah, they caught a guy who was splitting his dues with a woman who claimed to be his "significant other" but who wasn't even dating him.  Not many women would marry a guy just to be able to play a private course on a regular basis, so I would say if you want your girlfriend to play, buy her a membership.

Or a ring.

Sean Leary

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2005, 06:48:46 PM »
I have a friend who is a member at Druid Hills and it is believed by many of the membership that the members involved in the suit joined DH for the specific purpose of raising a stink on this issue.

I was told that the mayor of Atlanta is of like persuasion, which is perhaps why this has gotten the legs in the manner that it as.

HamiltonBHearst

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2005, 06:59:58 PM »


Who sponsered these guys?  Are they still members?  

This is real comical and sad.  So now a club has to allow "significant others" the use of the facilities?  


Tyler Kearns

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2005, 07:41:57 PM »
Hamilton,

Perhaps if the members in question were allowed to marry their "significant others", this issue would not need to be raised. It is an example of a much larger problem, the unequal treatment of people based on sexual orientation (something we should be discussing in another forum, not GCA - sorry for perpetuating an off-topic thread).

TK

HamiltonBHearst

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2005, 09:07:52 PM »


It would seem to me that the gentlemen that are suing the club are asking for unequal treatment.  Why would they think that they should be given spousal privledges when the state and federal governments do not consider them married.

It is really not the clubs problem they are not the ones not allowing the guys to marry.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2005, 09:35:58 PM »
Hamilton,

Perhaps if the members in question were allowed to marry their "significant others", this issue would not need to be raised.

How can a club be held accountable for the "laws of the land" ?  In this case, the state of Georgia.  The State of Georgia prohibits same sex marriage, so why should the club be deemed to be at fault.

You should also note that where clubs offer "significant others" privileges, in many instances, those privileges differ significantly from the privileges afforded spouses, in that they are far more restricted or limited, and in many cases, have a dues structure quite different from spousal dues.

Forgotten in these issues is the dues structure and resultant utilization patterns.

Many members/clubs object to members who pay far less in initiation and dues having the same rights as those who pay full/higher initiation and dues.

Why should someone who pays $ 500 a year have the same privileges as someone who pays $ 5,000 per year ?

How many foursomes can tee off from the 1st tee between
7:30 am and 8:30 am ?

If you pay $ 5,000 a year, should someone who pays $ 500 a year have preference on the tee ?  Be equal on the tee ?

Look, before you leap.
Think, before you speak.
[/color]


cary lichtenstein

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2005, 09:41:11 PM »
This is sounding like "Desperate Housewives"
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2005, 11:34:07 PM »
Sounds like DH needs a little better screening process up front on the membership approval area.  I am guessing that whomever sponsored them is feeling rather uncomfortable at this point.  I am guessing their fellow members are letting them hear about it.
Instagram: @thequestfor3000

"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

Tyler Kearns

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2005, 02:27:27 AM »
Pat,

I did not state that Druid Hills is at fault regarding this issue, because like you stated, they are adhering to state and federal laws which do not allow gay marriage. As I said, this is a rather minor incident in a much greater struggle - for equal rights. Therefore, I think the argument of the members, while having merit, will fail because it is not up to the club to alter discriminatory laws - it is the will of the electorate.

Regarding the dues structures at clubs - I can only imagine that different rules apply to spouses than they would "significant others". Are the members in question attempting to alter these rules? I think they only want same sex relationships to be recognized, and therefore would adhere to the rules that apply to male-female relationships. Equality.

While the dues structure at my home club does not feature the same disparity as the example you gave, my membership & initiation fees are reduced because of my age. My initiation fee is 1/2 price because I'm under-30, and my yearly dues are 2/3 the full freight. I have been welcomed warmly into the club, and have not been subjected to any hostility. With a membership whose average age was escalating every year, the staff and existing members are glad to see some young blood entering the club, ensuring a healthy financial future. If this fee structure was not in place, the club would lack membership diversity - and would age quickly because not enough young members would exist to replenish the older members who leave, or quit playing and join at the social level. This type of system exists at all the private clubs in my province, and if it did not, a great many young golfers would be turned away from the game because they simply could not afford to pay the same rates as their parents, and that would present a very bleak future for the game.

TK
« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 02:28:37 AM by Tyler Kearns »

Brad Klein

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2005, 05:23:29 AM »
Actually, it's not private clubs that are under assault. This thread is misnamed. It's discrimination againts gays that's being targeted.

I am not at all certain that in this case, Druid Hills is actually discriminating against gays. And it also sounds like some grandstanding here by the city of Atlanta, since the proper target should be the state's laws that do not allow for gay marriage unions. But there is no assault here upon private clubs, just against the notion that clubs are free to make discriminatory choices while benefiting from public benefits like tax abatements.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2005, 07:10:21 AM »
Brad Klein,

What tax abatements do clubs benefit from other then Income taxes on that segment of their income not deemed for non-related business purposes ?

In reviewing some 2004-2005 budgets, Property taxes seem to be increasing significantly at clubs.

Has the National Club or National Managers Association ever put together an outline of the tax benefits afforded clubs on a state by state basis ?

Tyler Kearns,

Each club's dues structure is unique to their operation and in some cases extremely complicated.   In some cases it's a study in gerrymandered, politically motivated histories of special interests or concerns of the club.  In other cases, it's an attempt to make up for past mistakes and revitalize the club.  For some reason, dictatorships seem to have the simplest dues structures.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 07:16:31 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

Zack Kelly

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2005, 07:30:05 AM »
It is a little ridiculous for clubs to give "significant others" the same privileges as spouses, IMHO.  You wind up with people who try to cheat the system.  At Medinah, they caught a guy who was splitting his dues with a woman who claimed to be his "significant other" but who wasn't even dating him.  Not many women would marry a guy just to be able to play a private course on a regular basis, so I would say if you want your girlfriend to play, buy her a membership.

Or a ring.

I couldn't agree more if you aren't seen as married legally clubs should not grant significant other any special privledges
Fairways & Greens
Zack Quinn Kelly

Craig Sweet

Re:Private Courses Under Assault Again
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2005, 08:21:43 AM »
We recently had a case settled here in Montana....the University system was allowing hetro couples to sign a piece of paper that in essence said they were common law married, and thus enjoy the benefits the University was providing. They were not letting gay couples do that.

The Montana Supreme Court said there had to be equal protection and there wasn't any.


Tags: