I recently heard that Philly Country is scheduled as the other qualifying course for the US Am next year (along with host Merion). Will the recent alterations to the golf course provide enough of a challenge for the players?

Does anybody know how much length was added?

I saw the scores from this year's Philadephia Open and they were remarkably high, I believe 1 over par won.

Were any holes changed dramatically? How about the finishing stretch (14-18)?

Thanks

Jim

Thanks Mike,

I played there in the fall and could not distinguih what had been changed but my host pointed out new things on many holes, including bunker restoration and some new back tees that I cannot recall exactly. The tree clearing was awesome, I am one of those that feels (on inland courses) there should be as few trees on the interior of the golf course as possible. I can certainly sympathize with your spectating predicament, both will be fantastic venues. Keep in mind that you will be able to watch at Merion all week and only at Country Monday and Tuesday.

Jim

Jim:

Philly C.C. redid, or restored their bunkering, regrassed their greens (A1 & A4) probably did some green expansion, perhaps redid their fairways (they are Princeville) and added length to holes #3, 4, 6, 10, 12, 13, 14, 17, and maybe a little to a few others. I don't know what the total card yardage is now or how much additional the total is or to each hole but I sure will find out for you. The scores in the Philly Open at PCC were higher than usual because the course played long and the greens were hard to putt and recover to. The reason many of the players gave for their problems on and around the greens was there was a considerable amount of grain on them that they really couldn't either see of figure out. I was out there officiating and that certainly did seem to be the case.

If the course is set up for US Am qualifying as it was for the Philly Open, and I hope it will be, PCC will be a good test for the US am qualifiers.

Jim;

It's almost scary that you talk about a player trying to determine whether to lay up on 18 to avoid catching the downhill.

One day me, Tom Paul, and Rich Goodale all tried out the new tips and we all hit good drives on 18, in fact it was my best of the day.  Two of us were able to clear the quarry and get just to the top of the hill.  I'll let you guess who didn't clear it.  

Combined, the new back tees at Merion bring that course to nearly 7000 yards, and the difficult part is that the additions are mostly on holes that played long anyway like 5, 14, and 18.  

If there's some wind, and firm conditions, it could be a blood bath.

Jim;

I'm not sure the total card yardage of 18, but that tee is "back there".  I would guess that both 5 & 18 now play close to 500 yards.  

The tee shot on 18 is frightening, and I'd hate to face it into a head wind!  

MikeC:

I will guarantee you that JES II can fly a drive about fifty yards over your Sunday best and about 75 yards over mine. I've played with the young gorrila in the past!  

But isn't the fairway another 20 yards or so past the crest?

Jim

Interesting Rich,

Sounds like you don't think the boys next summer will have much trouble with that tee shot? How about the 17th at PCC, I have often thought forcing a shaped tee ball is how to really challenge the top players. Apparently that tee is longer and further right. Driver may not be required, but one would not want to hit the approach from 220 on the top of that hill very often.

Jim

Jim,

They did bring the fairway back about 15-20 yards on 18 at Merion.  I guess 5, 6, 15 and 18 all play on or about 500 yards.  17 can be up to about 250, they lowered the front tees so most of the visibility is still there.  The total yardage is a shade under 7000 par 70.

Wayne,

Are you referring to numbers 5,6,15 and 18 at Merion? Did they really stretch 6 and 15 that far? I had heard about 5 and 18, but it would seem to me that 6 would work best at 450 or 460 because of the dogleg and 15 at 425 - 450 because of the size and severity of the green. That would be amazing if those two holes in particular were that long.

Thanks,

Jim

Wayne,

I have noticed a strong local contingency, and certainly passionate as you say. Thank you for the welcome.

As far as the new tees at Merion, I would not imagine they would use all of them for the Amateur next year, but I see nothing wrong with having them in case lack of length continues to be mentioned as a reason for not bringing the Open back.

My personal feeling is that if you could assure a firm and fast  the Open at Merion would be a great test, while a soft course might yield some very low scores. I think the USGA goes a bit too far in attempting to protect par at the Open and, in the case of Shinnecock, they lose sight of the real objective; let the best players in the world play some of the best courses in the world and see who handles it the best.

Cheers,

Jim

I guess you're right, Tom, I must be wrong.  I thought there were four holes around 500 yards, but I guess not.  Clearly 5 and 18 are on or about.  Looking at the map, I guess 6 is only about 470 or so.  It sure looked to me that the back tee on 15 is about 80 yards or so behind the present tee, but that would be about 460.  What do you think the yardage on 14 is from the back of the putting green/tee?  480?

By the way Jim, have you played in the Northeast Amateur at Wannamoisett?

Willie,

I have never been to Wannamoisett, unfortunately. I have heard nothing but acclaim for the course, although I don't recall any mention of space. Your comments bring a couple of interesting thoughts to mind;

1) Do you really think Merion was routed so as to allow the type of 'expansion that has developed?
---I forget where but I have seen writing from Flynn that, because of equipment, courses one day would have to be 7500-800 yards to provide the type of challenge presented at the time he was working.
---I am sure some of our friends on this board, possibly yourself, are much more knowledgeable than I about the actual routing of the East Course, but I am aware that Flynn spent a great deal of time there in its early years as greenskeeper before striking out on his own as an architect. Do we know if Flynn had anything to do with the routing?

2) How would Wannamoisett compare to our local Donald Ross courses (Aronimink, Gulph Mills etc..)?
---I understand it plays to a par of 69, I am not necessarily a proponent of paying attention to par, but wouldn't Gulpf Mills draw much more acclaim as a par 69? I am obviously referring to #7 and #18.

Jim
---Has Gulph Mills adopted the "Ideal Maintenence Meld" yet?