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Rich_M

Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« on: December 11, 2004, 10:47:09 AM »
Is there any place in golf course design for radical innovations.  I'm not referring to design methods but the designs themselves.  Is there anything new to do which would create excitement for the player??  Is the concept of radical design so  incompatible with the the nature of golf (or golfers),that real innovation is rejected for that very reason??
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2004, 10:49:43 AM »
Rich M,

Most radical features, "quirks" have been homogenized or softened to make them more palatable to the masses.
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2004, 10:56:20 AM »
Interesting question, Rich. I think there are several factors hindering true innovation. One reason would be economic risk if the innovation is not embraced by the customers, who happen to pay the bills. Another reason would be the cost of maintenance. I have had some ideas, but once I apply some economics to the ideas, it becomes something that PROBABLY doesn't work in the field, in real life.

Having said that, when one considers how quickly things change in today's world, one would hope that true innovation could happen to keep renewed interest in golf and golf course architecture.

By the way, returning to the roots of golf course architecture may be sound business and design, but it isn't innovative.

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Mark Brown

Re:Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2004, 11:02:24 PM »
Joe,

I respectfully disagree. There are no original ideas left. All that is old has become new again. You can move all the dirt in the world but it won't create any different outcome or effect on the game than what nature has already done.

You could do something outlandish like geometric design features (it's already been done and is dreadful) but it won't make good golf holes.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2004, 02:54:39 PM »
Mark:

I don't think searching for "radical design innovations" is a particularly good idea.  But I don't think that extends to the premise that there are no original ideas left.

In fact, I HATE the premise of some on this board that it's impossible to design anything original anymore.  Were that so, architects should just repeat the same copies of the Redan and Biarritz, and I would go find something more interesting to do.

I will admit that it's difficult to come up with all new ideas for an entire course ... in fact, it would probably be foolish to try.  But over the course of 18 new designs, I do think I've managed to design a few holes which I had never seen a copy of elsewhere.  And those are the holes of which I'm proudest.

There are a few other practicing architects who are trying to produce original work, and I admire their effort as well.
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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2004, 03:45:38 PM »
 i would shy away from the term radical ,but i'm kind of partial to the idea of creating hardscape elements i.e. walls ,roads , buildings ,ruins ,forts that don't necessarily relate to the golf game as bulkheads and rr ties might , but are integral to the strategy of the hole......functioning but not necessarily decorative is the litmus test.

 many courses have incorporated  these pre-existing features as they were found [TOC #17 ,north berwick ,dunbar etc.] , but i feel designing  them from nothing to create strategic fabric and provide interest has merit.........but i'm sure this is hardly new , just new to me...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2004, 07:46:36 PM by paul cowley »
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Jim Johnson

Re:Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2004, 08:34:11 PM »
Quote from: Rich_M on December 11, 2004, 10:47:09 AM
Is there any place in golf course design for radical innovations.  I'm not referring to design methods but the designs themselves.  Is there anything new to do which would create excitement for the player??  Is the concept of radical design so  incompatible with the the nature of golf (or golfers),that real innovation is rejected for that very reason??
Rich,
Sounds like you've got some idea(s) up your sleeve.
Let's hear 'em.
JJ
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peter_p

Re:Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2004, 07:24:40 PM »
This is more of a concept than a design innovation. A Bluffton SC group called Prestwick 12 is planning on building 12 hole golf courses, to cut time of play, construction and maintenance costs.
http://www.cybergolf.com/index.asp?newsID=2562
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 07:25:49 PM by Peter Pittock »
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Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Radical Design Innovations in the Modern Era
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2004, 11:08:24 PM »
I think there is plenty of new stuff to come. The age we are in now seems to be retro in nature: Nostaliga is in — innovation is only good when it borders on past bright spots.

I long for the day when golf architects who take chances are rewarded......and by "taking chances" I do not mean going against, necessarily, the mainstream of course design.

Mark — quite bluntly, I believe you are wrong.
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— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
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