This may seem like an odd question, but I thought I'd throw it out there and see what people thought. And of course, as with so many threads - it's probably been discussed before. I live in relative isolation up here in terms of the world of GCA and the people on this website are all known to me only as names and messages.

As many of you know, I am quite new to this subject. My interest most certainly stems from my obsession with golf, combined with my interest in design. To me, GCA is pretty much my only place to discuss this topic.

Once I began to search for books on the subject of GCA, and discovered how hard they were to come by - it seemed odd, given the fact that so many people play the game and have opinions about the designs. Finding this website was a great discovery for me, as it provides up-to-the-minute dialogue on the subject, and most strikingly - makes no structural distinction between the professional architect and the interested/opinionated novice. This is a great strength. As I have begun to think more about golf course architecture in relation to history and culture, it seems to me that the realm of golf plays a role which has yet to be fully recognized by those outside the game - (or in many cases, the religion)

I could be crazy, but taking part in the discussions on this board feels...I don't know...'important' to golf history...

Does anyone else feel this way?

No, this is a fun place to discuss, argue, and generally talk about what we all love, architecture.

It can be a wonderful source of great information which means it does have some importance; but if you mean has it the ability to change the direction of golf, I don't think so.

There is no doubt that GCA has some impact, however impossible to quantify.  

It's a worldwide, public forum, and I doubt there's an architect out there who isn't aware of its existence and I suspect there are more than a few lurkers in that community.

I also suspect that most of its impact is educational, and therefore, subconscious.

The problem with this site is not that it changes architecture... it is that it forces it to remain the same.....I don't want to name names....but....but why even bother to travel to these great new courses being built by the darlings of this site when you know what the designs are going to look like and how they are going to play before you even get there...That is the fault of this site and the people who beat the same drum day after day.....Hell, Klein even gets his new raters prepackaged thanks to this site....that really promotes diversity in design...

How important is GOLFCLUBATLAS.com?

You can't believe how much some of us have gotten together and discussed this over the last five or so years this site has been in existence. Matter of fact, there was group of a dozen or so who just happened to get together in NYC just the other night who were basically discussing this very thing. Ran was there of course.

This website is basically a small coterie of contributors who actually write on here but there always has been far, far more who log on just to read what's said. It would also blow your minds to know who some of them are who just come on a view some things without the slightest intention of ever contributing or admitting they do look.

Having said that, GOLFCLUBATLAS.com in a larger sense is the site some admire a great deal, others may admire very begrudgingly and many others just love to hate it! But the point is it does not go away, most can't seem to avoid it altogether and even those who hate it can't stay of away from it.

The other night in NYC I told the group that about a half dozen times in some of the most unlikely places (a few in some unuusual golf clubs) I've overheard groups of people who're obviously golfers discussing GOLFCLUBATLAS.com. I always try to eavesdrop, of course, and I've heard remarks such as;

"Clubs and people may not like some of what they're saying but they are pushing the subject, they're defending the things they feel should be defended and preserved and they are getting attention even though those whose attention their getting may not like it."

I do know for a fact that discussions on here about some clubs have been printed out and taken into things like golf and green committee meetings and even board meetings.

So, it's probably impossible to say how important GOLFCLUBATLAS.com is but like it or not it just may be more important than some or perhaps even most think it is.

It is very controversial, though, and in the end that might be a good thing---maybe the only way it really should be!

TEP:

The question isn't do people see it.  They do.  It's on the internet and it has become well-known, among people interested in golf course architecture primarily, but also among the masses due to the Sports Illustrated article.

To me that's a given.

Isn't the question here is it important?

I'm interested in your expanded take on that.  I am here to learn.

See I'm with Tlavin... I too am not sure "important" is the right word...

TH

why even bother to travel to these great new courses being built by the darlings of this site when you know what the designs are going to look like and how they are going to play before you even get there...That is the fault of this site and the people who beat the same drum day after day.....

Two sincere questions:

1) Really? You know how the darlings' courses are going to play, before you get there? Could you please be specific, John? I have played only one course by any of the darlings (Sand Hills), so I'm not qualified to even guess what you might mean.

2) Are the non-darlings of the site, free from the tyranny of gca.com, reinventing themselves with each new course? Or is it merely true that, in the real world, golf-course architects -- darlings or otherwise -- are in *business*, not in High Art, and the realities of business more or less require them, as they more or less require most of us, to establish a style and more or less stick to it?

----

To answer the thread's title question: I know, for a fact, that this Web site influences at least the two architects I know.

Does that make it "important"? Not from my point of view -- which is that golf-course architecture (a great big world, with room for everyone in it) is interesting, but not in the least important (except in Sense 1, Part 2 of Adam's definition).

Of course, by that definition, what isn't important on this Earth?

John B. Kavanaugh:

I'll ask you again a question I've asked you on here a number of times, a question you never answer.

What is it that you're looking for in golf course architecture?

Quote from: Dan Kelly on December 10, 2004, 11:22:45 AM

Does that make it "important"? Not from my point of view -- which is that golf-course architecture (a great big world, with room for everyone in it) is interesting, but not in the least important.

Well said, Dan - concur 100%.

Tom and Dan,

I could be misinterpreting, but you seem to be referring to the importance of golf course architecture.

With 30,000 (or so) courses worldwide, millions of golfers, billions of dollars spent on the activity, more that 100 years in its modern form...

What would make the study of golf course architecture move from "interesting" to "important"?

This is a typical GOLFCLUBATLAS.com discussion. Someone asks how important GOLFCLUBATLAS.com is and we don't discuss the question, we discuss all the various nuances of the meaning of the word "important"!  

Yeah. Isn't it great?

Quote from: TEPaul on December 10, 2004, 11:34:00 AM

This is a typical GOLFCLUBATLAS.com discussion. Someone asks how important GOLFCLUBATLAS.com is and we don't discuss the question, we discuss all the various nuances of the meaning of the word "important"!  

Yeah. Isn't it great?

Let's get Safire working on this post...

There is nothing on this earth more important than GCA.  

May our collective wisdom be used to guide our civilization towards peace, prosperity, and better golf courses for our children's children's children.

Did you ever notice how the countries that don't play golf (and by extension, have no courses of real quality) are most often the one's who are fighting, bickering, and killing each other?

Spread the gospel, I say..  

"TEP:
Define the word however you wish... Is this site important?  If so, why?  And I ask this not to be adversarial at all, I truly do aim to learn."

TomH;

Why? Read post #7 again. If you look at perhaps even seemingly small results in an individual context of what I said there it might not seem like much but when you begin to total them all up this site begins to become important, in my opinion. Of course there'll always be plenty of people who'll crticize and hammer this website. Why? Probably because this website criticizes them either specifically or generally. It's no different in the much larger overall world of golf architecture,