[Steve_Roths]

I was just looking at Geoff's site specifically at the Prarie Club section.  Is the same group that is doing the first 18 doing the second 18?  Also does this club have a website or anything at this point to inquire about membership?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Yes, Hanse, Wagner, Shack, & co. are also doing the 2nd course.  No web site that I know of, doesn't mean there isn't one.

[Steve_Roths]

I wonder if they will modify that logo on Geoff's site to be similar to Sand Hills S&H attached like a cattle brand.  You could do some cool things with TPC.  

[Jimmy Muratt]

The land for this project looks fantastic.  Take a look at the attached routing plan from Geoff Shackelford's website.  The course looks to have a couple very promising short 4's, #6 and #15 which will be a cape hole across the canyon edge.  

#13 is going to be a short par 3 to a skyline green.

[cary lichtenstein]

Add me to the list of persons interested in joining.

[Jeff_Mingay]

As I've mentioned in past threads, Rod Whitman and I interviewed for the Valentine job. We spent two days going over the property and were very, very impressed.

With some familiarity with the property in mind, I have a pretty good idea how the holes are laid out by Gil, Jim, and Geoff and can honestly say, it looks very, very good. Particularly those holes that play along, and over sections of the canyon rim. It's that section of the course that's going to differentiate The Prairie Club from nearby Sand Hills, dramatically.  

The final stretch of holes from 14 thru 18 look really interesting on Gil's artful map, which is very attractive.

It also appears that one of the "little holes", on the par 3 course plays to the large practice putting green. And it's also kinda neat how the entrance road weaves through the short course. That should make for a intriguing intro. to The Prairie Club.

[RJ_Daley]

From what I saw, I honestly think that as folks become familiar with the course through multiple play, that they very well may come to like the prairie front 9 even more than the caprock 9, despite the dramatic and exciting play along and across fingers of the canyon.   But, then there is 17.  When we stood where the tee would be and looked down range to the LZ, the concept of an alternate green just jumped out as the perfect site for one.  And, low an behold, Gil and Geoff had that already conceived.  17 may become one of the most talked about holes of them all.  Particularly for those that play multiple rounds in one day and play to alternate greens with two distinct playing strategies.  There is just so much good land out there, that it boggles the mind.  

[Pete Buczkowski]

From what I saw, I honestly think that as folks become familiar with the course through multiple play, that they very well may come to like the prairie front 9 even more than the caprock 9, despite the dramatic and exciting play along and across fingers of the canyon.   But, then there is 17.  When we stood where the tee would be and looked down range to the LZ, the concept of an alternate green just jumped out as the perfect site for one.  And, low an behold, Gil and Geoff had that already conceived.  17 may become one of the most talked about holes of them all.  Particularly for those that play multiple rounds in one day and play to alternate greens with two distinct playing strategies.  There is just so much good land out there, that it boggles the mind.  

If I might comment on the plan without seeing the land at all...that stretch from 6-9 looks quite unique.  Hole 6 at 310 with small bunkers sprinkled throughout its wide fairway, Hole 7 at 610 with bunkers to make you think hard on your second, Hole 8 at 355 with a bit off what you can chew tee shot, and the (what appears to be Redan-like) 9th at 195 with the canyon in the background (is it in view?).  And all before you hit the canyon...it appears to be quite a thrilling golf course.

RJ - thanks for pointing out that 2nd green on 17.  I hadn't seen it during my first pass!

I can't help but notice the yardage on the par 4's.  Are the days of the medium-length par 4 gone?

Pete
A Casual Poster

[Brian_Gracely]

I can't help but notice the yardage on the par 4's.  Are the days of the medium-length par 4 gone?

Pete
A Casual Poster

450yds is a medium-length Par4 these days  It appears that there are multiple tees on each hole, so I'm sure the yardages are just listed from the back tees.

[Pete Buczkowski]

450yds is a medium-length Par4 these days  It appears that there are multiple tees on each hole, so I'm sure the yardages are just listed from the back tees.

Its clear that designers over the last 5 years are getting to that 7000 number *very* differently than in years past.  Take this card as an example - there's only one hole between 370 and 445 yards, and not coincidentally, its the first.  I guess you're right Brian, its more like 460-470 is an average length par 4 (averaging up the longer par 4's yardage).  Its a very clever way of combatting technology - give less full PWs to the long player and more half-wedges or middle irons.

Pete
A Casual Poster

[Jimmy Muratt]

Here are a few great shots from Geoff's website:

#1, rear view looking back toward tee (note the natural contours of the green!)


#3, Par 3, view from tee to large punchbowl green


#15, Short Par 4, the hole bends to the right and the carry ranges from 110-200 yards depending on line chosen


#16, Par 3, view from tee, green site is on the left side of photo


#18, Par 4, view from tee, you see some some of the undulating fairway through the trees

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