Doug,

It's been a long time since I played Bald Head, and only about 5 rounds to my experience. I remember a stretch of par 4's, probably on the back nine, that will really stretch you. Also a par 3, maybe #17, that will take a pure hit to get there if the wind is in your face.

I don't remember much about the shaping and bunkering, probably because I was a lot more interested in playing golf than I was in architecture back then.

It's a fun day trip with the ferry ride over from the quant town of Southport. I lived there for 3 1/2 years with many fond memories.

Hope this helps,

Joe

I played Bald Head about a year ago and really enjoyed the layout. The course is is the process of being aquired by the members from the developer. The golf course has some deferred maintenance issues, particularly with respect to the bunkers and overgrown trees. A $1.0 million facelift could dramatically improve the course.

In the past few years there has been considerable clearing of areas off the fairways.  The course is in terrific condition and a lot of fun to play.  There is discussion of redoing the greens in a more modern bermuda and to restore the course to the original Cobb design.  

Doug

I guess its my job to be the hard man.  Short and sweet, Bald Head is boring - its golf and thats about it.  It isn't too often I walk away from a course and wonder what the point of building that was, but BH fits that bill nad was a huge disappointment.  There isn't a single hole which really stands out though there are a few gooduns.  There are a handful of holes with hidden water off the tee and in general loads of water throughout the course - not traits I admire in a course.  The greens tend to be fairly large with with some large undulations, but nothing of any real interest.  Worst of all, they charge $100 and it is more like a $40 course - if that.  If you are desperate for a game and don't mind paying give it a go, but I wouldn't reco the course.  However, we did see some muy largo gators and decided to hang about one swampy area on #12 (another hole with hidden water off the tee) and that was pretty cool.  Theres too much other stuff to do to bother with golf.  We were meant to play a second game last Easter and very much voted it down.  

Ciao

Sean,

Thanks for this but you'll note that my original thread was in January 2003 (we visted there in July 2003)! When you commented on Bald Head earlier this year I gave you the reply below (with some of the same reactions) on this thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=28620;start=msg551339#msg551339

Sean,

Perhaps you didn't read my posts on Bald Head Island, or you would have approached the course with lower expectations! You have to like the island itself though...

"Last year I started a thread about George Cobb and Bald Head Island as I planned to visit there. That thread is here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1533;start=msg29940#msg29940 "

I did visit and played the course once. The course is nicely routed as it winds through the native areas on this beautiful island (where, as mentioned, cars are not allowed) and has a number of solid holes such as the par 4 9th, the par 5 11th, the par 3 16th and the par 4 18th but there are a number of holes in the forested area of the course that are totally unmemorable. Ditto the bunkering and greens, which are large, flattish and boring. The course could be quite difficult when it's windy there as it often is, but I wasn't clamoring to leave the beach to play it again after my round there. Sort of a white bread '60s course in my opinion. "

"Gents,

I only played it once, but I didn't walk off Bald Head Island GC saying "that's a great golf course!" I guess one person's ode to minimalism is another person's boredom.... Still a wonderful island and vacation spot.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=25561;start=msg475860#msg475860 "

 

John -

My interest in Cobb started with the following question:

After RTJ and Dick Wilson, who were the other prominent architects in the Dark Ages?

Cobb comes to mind, along with a couple of other people. But after RTJ and DW, there was a big fall off. Third place was a very distant third place. (Or am I forgetting someone?)

The mystery to me is why, with Cobb's fantastic connections, he didn't do a better job of closing that gap. There must have been lots of opportunities.

But maybe your are right. Maybe Cobb wasn't very ambitious and quite happy to hang around his home base.

Did Cobb do the old Marshside nine at Sea Island?

Bob

Golf course architect John LaFoy was a very close associate of George Cobb. I tipped Mr. LaFoy to this thread, and I believe readers will find his response to be most interesting.  Here it is:


I read with some interest the thread regarding Bald Head Island Golf Club, but particularly the comments about its architect George Cobb. Of course, the comments about the golf course are just opinion, but the comments about Mr. Cobb reflect more fact and some speculation. I think for the most part Bob Crosby and John Stiles have most of what they commented on exactly right. I will try to “fill in the blanks” and clear up some of the speculation. (I should add that I am entirely prejudiced, as I worked for him for ten years and grew up with his son as my best friend).

First - Bald Head. I think many of the posts were correct, particularly those who felt like it is an excellent layout, but could use some updating and taking care of deferred maintenance issues. Courses usually suffer for a few years after they are taken over by their members, but once they get their feet on the ground and get their financial house in order, they usually start to improve. Hopefully that will happen here. Rob mentioned a million dollar “facelift,”, but it would probably be two or three times that if they wanted to really do it right. Working on an island makes everything cost a lot more than it should. As some of you might have surmised, that golf course was very difficult to build, for a lot of reasons. 1) it was not a high budget golf course; 2) much of it was built in a swamp (I have photos of centerline stakes in three feet of water) and 3) logistically, it was just difficult to get equipment, materials, and labor there. There was no electricity on the island and the irrigation system ran off of generators for years. The greens were originally Bentgrass.

More about George Cobb. George Cobb understood golf. He understood how it was played, how courses should be laid out, and how courses should be maintained. He understood how to get jobs (the hardest part of golf course architecture - designing is easy (if you know how to do it)). He was also quite practical. He did not design courses that required a XXX dollar maintenance budget if he knew they only could afford half that amount. On the other hand, he would not take jobs if he knew they should not or could not be built for the proposed construction budget. That is not to say that it never happened, but in his case it was very rare.

Mr. Cobb was indeed the consultant at the Augusta National (I guess you refer to it as ANGC on this forum), as well as the architect for the Par 3 course. I am still in possession of the original par 3 layout (pencil on 8 1/2 x 11 onionskin), as well as all of his other drawings of ANGC. Speculation as to why he did not parlay his work there into other high profile jobs is quite simple. He has a letter (from Gene Howard, I think) stating that any information linking George Cobb to ANGC would come from ANGC and not from Mr. Cobb’s office. He simply could not talk about it. I worked with him there from 73-78 (until the year after Robert’s death) and we just could not use it as a promotional tool. By then however, most folks knew we worked there.

However, Mr. Cobb did get a number of high profile jobs (mostly in the southeast, as I think John and Bob’s speculation about why he worked in the southeast is mostly correct), including Quail Hollow. A lot of folks don’t realize that he designed the first seven courses on Hilton Head Island, including Harbor Town. I think Pete Dye, in his book, credits Mr. Cobb with the original layout (although Mr. Cobb never claimed to have designed Harbor Town - as some might ). He also worked on a number of high profile renovations as well, including Birmingham CC and East Lake. There were not a huge number of high profile clubs built in the 50’s and 60’s so I would say that Mr. Cobb got his share of them.

I also think the speculation or discussion about who “followed” behind Dick Wilson and Robert Trent Jones is interesting, and Bob and John, I think, have that correct. Certainly Mr. Cobb would be in that short list, as well as Ellis Maples, Larry Packard, to name a few (there were more and it is probably not fair to leave them out). Mr. Cobb and Maples certainly knew as much about golf course design and golf as RTJ and Wilson, but just did not have the same aesthetic flair (particularly bunkers) as those two. He did not have the “marketing” prowess as RTJ (who did?) or the eccentric reputation of Wilson. Having a “schtick” in this business goes a long way! Mr. Cobb told me one time that when he was designing The Surf Club, at North Myrtle Beach, he purposely did not go by and see The Dunes Club, as he did not want to be accused of trying to copy RTJ.

Bob’s comments on Athens CC were also right on the mark (other than the date - should have been in the 70’s). The third nine on that fine course was built on a limited amount of land by a very poor contractor that did just about everything wrong - starting with clearing the first hole straight, ignoring the dogleg turn. He wound up walking off the job when it was about 75% complete leaving the club (and the bonding company) holding the bag. If I remember correctly a rental car (or bulldozer) was left sitting in one of the fairways. We found out later that the contractor never intended to finish the course and just bailed out when we started writing him “split” checks written to him and his suppliers, whom he was not paying. Fun stuff.

One last comment. Great architecture should not be entirely based out how artistic bunkers appear. If you take the same layout of a “great” course and substitute oval or elongated oval bunkers, does it all of a sudden become a “goat track.”  If you take a poor layout and maintain it to ANGC standards, does it suddenly become a “great” layout?

After designing golf courses for over thirty-five years, I have determined that every course has its place and I try and not be too critical of any facility, particularly if I don’t know the whole story behind it. Some of the most “charming” courses I have visited have been very low budget  layouts that serve a purpose to get people playing.

Mr. LaFoy -

I am pleased and honored you took the time to share your thoughts with us on George Cobb. I hope you will continue to participate here. You will always be welcome. In fact, I hope you will set us straight, as needed.

I had always thought that Cobb's connection with ANGC was well known at the time, especially after the Masters preview article in the 1959 Sports Illustrated that he co-wrote with Bobby Jones.

I suspect that RTJ, one way or another, made hay with his work at ANGC in '48 and that his association with the club helped launch his career. There is no question that RTJ was one of the master marketers of all time.

I have always wondered about the Bobby Jones - RTJ relationship. In particular why it ended so abruptly. In '48 RTJ had done Peachtree, the first big budget course post WWII, and major changes to ANGC. Both for Bobby Jones. I assume they were close at the time.

But RTJ seemed to fall out of favor and soon thereafter George Cobb became Bob Jones' first choice, for both ANGC, the par 3 there and the changes to East Lake for the Ryder Cup. All very high profile jobs.

I would love to hear anything you might know about the rise and fall of those relationships.

Also, do you have any recollection  of the specific changes Mr. Cobb made to ANGC and whether Cliff Roberts was involved? For example, there were major changes made to the 8th green at ANGC in the '50's (since undone). I had always understood that those changes were made at the behest of Cliff Roberts (in the name of better crowd control), over the objections of Jones and Cobb.

Thanks for any information you might provide.

I had not heard your story about the problems with the third nine at Athens CC. That's great stuff. I grew up on the Athens CC. I hope you at least got your design commission. Ordinarily I wouldn't worry, but ....

Did you hear the story about Peter Tufts, who was hired to redo the 8th green on the Ross course at ACC in '78? Their bulldozer kept hitting what they thought was a large rock in the middle of the green. Turns out it was a Chevy truck transmission buried just under the surface. They traced it to a supplier that had provided the dirt decades before. The supplier was also in the auto salvage business and figured no one would notice. And for about 20 years no one did. You have to give the guy credit for trying.

Bob

P.S. Thanks Gary for contacting Mr. LaFoy. I hope this is the beginning of many conversations with him.        

From John LaFoy:

Bob,

It is nice to see someone as knowledgeable as you and Gary Daughters on this forum (as well as many others). I love discussing some of the behind the scenes type stuff, as although golf architecture is interesting; the story behind it is even more fascinating. This is particularly true at a place like ANGC, as there are just a lot of stories (many of which are true).

You are indeed correct about Mr. Cobb’s relationship with Bob Jones. They were indeed good friends and after Mr. Cobb illustrated the Sports Illustrated article (I thought it was 1960 - you said 59 and are probably correct) he insisted on sending Mr. Cobb 10% of his fee of $10,000. Mr. Cobb insisted that he not be paid, but a week or so later a check for $1000 arrived for Mr. Cobb. He was also instrumental in getting Mr. Cobb to re-do the greens at East Lake for the Ryder Cup. As I recall, East Lake used to have summer and winter greens and Mr. Cobb re-designed the summer greens and converted them to Bentgrass. Mr. Cobb also illustrated Jones’s book Golf is My Game. I still have the original drawing of the 17th hole at St. Andrews that Cobb and Jones used to illustrate how Jones played the hole. Interesting, he did not go for that green on his second shot, but chose to lay up where he would have an advantageous chip for a par putt.

I may not be correct, but I believe the rift between RTJ and the Augusta National was with Cliff Roberts and not Bob Jones. I believe that is what Mr. Cobb told me, but Rees or Bobby Jones may know differently. I assume they know but I can’t be sure. Of course, the way RTJ explained the rift may have been different than how Cliff Roberts or Bob Jones explained it.

Another interesting story on ANGC was that Mr. Roberts was the driving force behind the Par 3 course. According to Mr. Cobb, Roberts wanted to be to that course as Bob Jones had been to MacKenzie on the big course. I have a lot of interesting stories about the building of that course.
 
I think you are exactly correct about the story behind the 8th green. I think that green was rebuilt about the same time as the Par 3 course, or within a year or two (1958). I still have the original model that was used to study the new design – it’s heavy as lead and I don’t want to throw it away, but don’t really know what to do with it. I guess I’ll just let it sit around for twenty more years.

That’s a funny story about Athens CC. Never heard it. I’ve got a lot more stories about the third nine. Ask Buzz Howell sometimes about the contractor and the problems and I am sure he will fill you in.


Ken - Yes I designed Linville Ridge while I was with Mr. Cobb. It was not his last course, but one of the last. I also designed his last course, which also involves a very funny story. Like I said earlier, designing golf courses is interesting, but not nearly as much as the stories behind them!

John LaFoy was gracious enough to show me around his office last summer.  Here are a few pictures that might be of interest.

This is the illustration Mr. LaFoy referenced.. George Cobb's rendering of how Bobby Jones played the Road Hole.  You can follow the dotted line along the top to where Jones laid up:




A page from the plan of the par-3 course:




John LaFoy at his drawing table:



Mr. LaFoy is a lively raconteur, and among other things a virtuoso banjo picker.  Should he join the board, which I hope he will, perhaps he'll regale us with his tale of singing folk songs in a pub in Ireland with Dr. J, Julius Irving.

Clyde,

Thanks for checking into the treehouse.  

http://www.clydejohnston.com/

John - Great to finally see you on GCA.com!

John is indeed an outstanding banjo picker. Here's a shot John in action at the 2006 Tiger Golf Gathering... a fund raiser for the Clemson University Golf Team's practice facility... which John designed for no charge!

Now that he's broken the ice I hope John will participate here regularly... he has a LOT of great stories and a real-world perspective on course design.

FWIW;

Cobb designed 'The Cobb Course' [origional name, eh?] at the Glade Springs Resort in West Virginia. Along the the 'Stonehaven Course' [Brian Ault] it comprises 36 holes of very good quality golf at fairly reasonable prices; especially with some great 'Stay and Play' options. I admit I have not played there, but have reports from people with whose opinions I generally agree.

http://www.gladesprings.com/golf.html

Doug