The ACE Club in Lafayette Hill, designed by Gary Player, formerly Eagle Lodge opened this year to some very good reviews.  I know a lot of people on here critcized it without seeing it, myself included because it was a 7500 yard Gary Player layout and also because the old course was not a bad course, it was an early reese jones course.

Almost everyone that I have talked to that has played the course has told me it was fantastic, although the course is not walkable from what I have heard.  The construction of the course/clubhouse has been estimated between 30 and 40 MILLION.  

There are now rumors in the Philly area that ACE could be in serious trouble.  They are having a real hard time selling the memberships, in what was supposed to be a corporate place much like Commonwealth in horsham.  Rumors are that housing developers were out at the site last week and it was a very real possibity that the club could be sold to the developers.

I want to re-iterate that as far as I know this is only a rumor, I have no idea to the actualy truth of it but I thought I would pass the information along.

Jason Mandel

that number i heard includes the new clubhouse,which i don't know what that cost but i'm sure it wasnt cheap! thanks for the correction though.

like i said i havent been out there yet but i have been told that theres a ton of earth moving that went on out there, and that all the moving of the boulders which are out on the course must have been extremely expensive as well.

This is just not a great time to sell corporate or individual memberships. The bubble burst several years ago...it's truly a supply and demand issue where demand simply does not exist.

Curious, anyone know what fees they are talking about?

Part of the bottom line is this;

The old Eagle Lodge course was perhaps a Doak 5 on an interesting, rolling property.

Millions of $$ later it looks pretty cool with stylish bunkering, better green conditions, and a lot of dough spent on stoneworks but in reality it's about a Doak 5.  It's also much less walkable than it was before.

It's a tough neighborhood to spend that type of cash unless you can come up with something pretty special.  The ACE club is not.

Guys,

I should have prefaced my statement about ACE being fantastic saying that the comment had not come from anyone from the treehouse.  Mostly guys that are not generally interested in architecture per say, but like good golf.  I had a feeling that their idea of fantastic and most on this site are a little different, but none the less I really haven't heard anyone have too much bad to say about the course.

Geoff,
I will try and compare the two after I play the ACE club, which I am going to try and do shortly since my pro says that are begging for people to come over there.  I'm sure I will be a little biased, however .  Just from what I have heard I think there had to be way more earthmoving over there than what we did  I do agree that our course does have a modern feel to it now, with the classic feel appearing in places but not the overall feeling that you get when playing the course.

Redanman,
I haven't yet played Stonewall(Udder) yet, but the few members of stonewall that I have talked to like the other course but not as much as the regular, which is  certainly understandable.  I have heard that the green complexes on North are lots of fun though.

ACE is a huge insurance company but to build that place and be open for almost a year and only have 60 something members as of last month really says something.

Also, I have been on that property countless times and to think they could build something that is not-walkable is really hard to fathom.  

Jason

I seem to remember that building lots for housing on the perimeter of the course were part of the plan when the new course was built as ACE bought additional acreage. Perhaps this brought builders to see the property.
The original concept for the club was corporate memberships only. Obviously, this market isn't ripe for a totally corporate club. Individual memberships are now somewhere around 40K, high for this area. Good luck to ACE.

Sarbanes Oxley could be the real long term issue for the ACE Club.  With few Ace Employees using the club and limited profitability if membership is as low as reported this does not pass the sniff test.  MBNA just sold off Deerfield for just this reason.

The ACE Club is fantastic

If your definition of fantastic is

BIG

BIG fast greens without contour
Plays easier than it looks
Lots of downhill shots and visibility
Long, but doesn't play long
Perfect conditions
Unwalkable in a reasonable amount of time for a 53 year old cripple
Stylish, but full of what passes for character instead of real character

My opinion of White Manor and Stonewall Udder vs. ACE (Unsolicited) is at least an order of magnitude for White Manor and Stonewall North (Udder) at least two orders of magnitude better.  Stonewall Udder is for some a better course than the first Stonewall depending on tastes.  They are rather different.

I can barely give the ACE a Doak 4.

I have no idea about their financials. It is a very pleasant place to play golf and very stunningly beautiful - but not much in the way of anything strategic or unique.  There are even a few really ho-hum to weak spots.

Redanman,

Let’s address your criticisms here...

BIG fast greens without contour
They certainly are big and fast (not negatives in my book), but they are by no means flat.  #9 comes to mind immediately as a green with some interesting contours and most have subtle breaks that are also influenced by the slope of the property.

Plays easier than it looks
I agree with this point... if you play smart, conservative golf from the correct set of tees you can score.  But is that a negative?  Try playing from the tips at 7500+ yds with a little wind and the rough up...

Lots of downhill shots and visibility
Again, not necessarily a negative in my book.  You have to take it in context with the rest of the course.  #5 is a wonderful, shortish par 4 where the downhill tee shot brings strategy into play.  The bunker in the middle of the fairway forces you to decide whether or not to lay up short right, go to the left of the bunker to a smallish sliver of fairway or try to drive the green.  I also enjoyed the down hill par 3 on the back, #14 with a ravine fronting the green.  Bethpage Black is another course with downhill shots (#1, #4, #5, 2nd shot on #6, #8, #16, #18) and visibility, and it doesn't detract from the experience there.

Long, but doesn't play long
The downhill shots, conditioning, and length of the par 5's certainly help.  However, you have to drive the ball well (#3 & #7 are both tough drives from the tips) and there are a few shortish par 4's that can also jump up and bite you.  #8 is a great example - 337 yds, uphill from the white tees and plenty of slope in the green and a shaved chipping area short left.

Perfect conditions
Agreed - with the exception of the 9th fairway which was being repaired when I was there.

Unwalkable in a reasonable amount of time for a 53 year old cripple
Totally agree - the #1 criticism I have of the course.  Jason, if you don't think it’s possible to create a course that's not walkable on that property... just wait.  The walk from #5 to #6 is ridiculous and it is definitely the routing, not the topography that caused this issue.  I have seen very walkable courses on land similar to this (The GC at Glen Mills comes to mind).

Stylish, but full of what passes for character instead of real character
Please explain this statement a little more.  "What passes for character" and "Real Character" means different things to different people, so I don't want to assume your definitions here.

Finally, I do think there a few average to below average holes in the design.  #1 is a relatively easy start (which I rather like), #4 is a bland par 3, and I was not a big fan of #15 or the semi-blind downhill tee shot on #11.  However, I did like the par 5 finishing hole, with the pond right of the green.

I am not directing this at you Redanman, but sometimes I think people prematurely dismiss courses like this because of the over-the-top nature of the facilities and the notion that they moved a lot of earth in the construction.  I wish more people would take a “tabula rasa” approach to courses and just evaluate the course based upon the merits of the design and the experience they have on the property rather than focusing on how the course was constructed.  In addition, contrary to some opinions on this board, I truly believe it is possible to have a modern looking golf course (even one that moves a lot of earth in its construction) which is also a quality design.

Geoffrey,
   I don't think there are many on this site that would argue you can't build a good golf course when you have to move a lot of dirt. The problem usually is that you can tell that a lot of dirt has been moved and it just doesn't look natural.
   Talking Stick, Shadow Creek, and the Rawls course at Texas Tech come to mind based on what people have had to say here. I haven't seen any of those courses.

Has anybody played ACE and Jasna Polana, Player's other course in metro-Philly to provide a comparison?

I saw Jasna Polana on a Golf Channel "Playing lessons from the Pros" with Player, and was underwhelmed.

I think that The ACE club is a shame, because I felt that Eagle Lodge was a fun and enjoyable golf course.    Reminds me of the guy that buys a $500K house only to tear it down and build a $5M mansion acting as a tribute to himself.

Jasna Polana is the site where three middle-aged architectural afficianados laughed hysterically like 5th graders at a fart joke as we surveyed the hideous architecture.  

I think the one that finally got us was the well-protected (by bunkers) chipping areas surrounding the 14th green.  

The ACE club is much better than that.