Why not #6?  You can't even see the fairway down there from the tips!

Anybody who's calling those holes at RC weak doesn't get it!

David,
You don't know how disappointed I am with this entire website right now.

We have today-

-People praising Fizzio
-People ragging on Rustic Canyon and comparing Pacific Dunes to Shadow Creek (one of the most over-rated golf courses of all-time)
-Tom Paul getting into a head to head battle with Tom Macwood, when they both stand for the same thing. (Redundancy at its best)
-18 signature holes exist in New Mexico
-A single-Malt called Languvilin Cask-Strength or something like that has eluded my palate and my wallet once again.

Not a good day

David,

I'd remove #4 from the weakest list first.  An incredibly delicate shot to the back left pin we played at KPIII.   This was one of my favorite holes on the golf course.

Mike

I really enjoy Rustic Canyon and I had the opportunity to listen to a comment from someone who has played Rustic and Wild Horse and he said (I won't name him) quite frankly that the detailing at Wild Horse was not as precise when compared to the design in Moorpark, CA.

I tend to agree but I must add that I believe the top 20 modern rating for Wild Horse by GolfWeek to be a tad higher than it should be given the other layouts I have played nationwide. How Rustic Canyon is ignored is indeed baffling.

Yes, I am one of those who has listed some shortcomings of Rustic Canyon, however, I also believe that it provides a different and most welcomed / needed vision on what public golf can be for the non-affiliated player.

Maybe Tommy or David M can speak to the issue of how the course is being prepared on a daily basis.

I have heard from someone most familiar with the course that the people managing the facility are applying a good bit of water and minimizing the importance of the ground option.

Be interested to hear comments on that.

Maybe Tommy or David M can speak to the issue of how the course is being prepared on a daily basis.

I have heard from someone most familiar with the course that the people managing the facility are applying a good bit of water and minimizing the importance of the ground option.

Be interested to hear comments on that.

Matt,

I'd be glad to address it.  I'd like to see the course firmer and faster.  They have had endless problems with the sprinklers and controlling just where they are watering.  The computer system was up and running for the first time ever a few month ago, then broke, but is now fixed again.  Many of the sprinkers dont reach as far as expected so there are often brown hard spots directly next to over-irrigated spots.   I think they are in-line to have all their sprinkler heads replaced as defective.  Also, they are replacing all the sprinklers around the greens with 180 degree (instead of 360 degree) sprinklers, so they can water the greens without watering the fringes.  

That being said, the course is still a pleasure to play and for the most part plays as intended.  Would be better if they could manage to get the water under control.  Jeff Hicks (the super) is making efforts but has not had the management support getting things right until very recently.  I trust now that a few problems (new sprinklers, computer) are being fixed, things will become much more consistent.  

By the way Matt your source plays most of his rounds with the sun rising . . . I probably play a few more than him in the late morning and early afternoon and can assure you that the course usually plays quite nicely.    

By the way,  it is my understanding that your source is a member of this discussion group and perfectly capable of posting on this issue, if he so desired.   Odd that you would see fit to put words in his mouth and then challenge me and Tommy to anwer to your take on his words.   Believe me, we've discussed it at length.   In my opinion your source is very grumpy and mean in the morning and has been known to complain about things such as dew on the grass and the occasional fog, once announcing during the only fog in about a 5 month span that if it kept up he would refuse to play in the morning.  Perhaps it is a matter of viewing the course as half empty or half full.  

Joe, I am not sure I understand what you are saying regarding 17.  I noticed the other day that  you said that the back right pin was the most difficult but that left me scratching my head.   I think that is one of the easier pins for the reasons you state.  Anything on the left side (front middle or back) is much more difficult and in my opinion that is what makes the hole.  

I don't understand how 1, 9 and 10 can all be par fives unless the placement of the clubhouse was more important than the architecture.....it just seems like everything centers around a clubhouse that is just not all that..

Barney, could you explain your logic.  You've lost me. Why does having 1, 9, and 10 par fives mean that they were designed to accomodate the clubhouse??  

Barney I dont get that sense about these particular holes. In fact, until the recent bunker additions on No 10, my guess is that all three of these holes were pretty much as is before the course was built.  The course does start out easy, so maybe you are partially correct about No. 10.  
_______________

Matt.  Relax.  Just thought it odd that you wouldnt let your source speak for himself, if he so chose.  Remind me to be careful what I say next time me meet for a pleasurable round or two.  

Speaking of which, why dont you come back out and we will play a double header with your source, so we can get an idea of the conditions throughout the day.  Surely with all you've asked and said about the course, you should see it for a second time??

Anyway, I hope I have answered your question to your satisfaction.

Mike,
And fading fast! But we got Az tonight,and I think if we can take all three it will lessen the pain. IF THEY DON'T, we are in trouble!

Matt,
Your source is a slouch and an upstart who only knows golf courses according to the Dewey Decimil System and also doesn't know how to vote in the upcoming election. I will confront this with him and David M. on Friday and/or Sunday when we are at the Dodger game. (Friday night is fireworks night and Slouch Cap night on Sunday)

You know what? Rustic Canyon is weak and you should all stay away!

the back right pin was the most difficult

I can't reach the green using 8 iron from the back tees as I've seen some other do.  I hit 4 and 5 from the back there.  I still however think it's the right tee for me.

That right pin position difficulty depends on whether you want to make birdie or par and how consistently you hit middle iron.  Some righthanders with a natural draw have to start out over the trees right to get close to that pin.  That can be a fun gamble to watch.  High fade is the right play I think.

So anyway with the pin on the right,if you hit it too far right or chunk it, you can get a high score.  When the pin is left or center, with all that landing area short of the green, offlines, misses and chunks don't have quite the same penalty.  Mis-hit shots short still sometimes get to the green.

I'd like 17 more if you had to be more precise with the shot.  The apron and green really do need to get back to what Rustic was like closer to the course opening in early/mid 2002.  Hit the middle of green, watch the ball roll long.

Not quite like USGA/Shinnecock hardness I guess, but definitely much harder and firmer than now.

Today, hit the middle of the green, see the ball stop within a few feet, even with 4 iron.  I believe that's a recipe for dull golf.

David,

Glad we agree that RC is still a pleasure to play.  

But you've lost site of the fact that we also agree that it has been way to wet, especially in the morning, although as usual your doom and gloom is greatly exaggerated.   But no one suggested that the overwatering is not cause for concern, nor that the overwatering doesnt hurt the day to day condition of the course.  

So where do we differ?   You are a pessimist and a doomsayer and I am not.  Jeff tells me that steps are being taken to correct the problem, and I believe him.  But no use arguing, when the infrastructure is finally in place we will see improvement first hand, or not.  

Joe is correct that we need to turn back the conditioning clock to where it was in the beginning.  Soon.  Otherwise my good friend David Kelly will implode.  

I'll try to take some photographs this week, so the rest of you can get a sense of what we are talking about.