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John_Conley

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Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« on: September 07, 2004, 02:38:09 PM »
Much in the media today about Vijay Singh overtaking Tiger Woods in the Official World Rank.  That ranking goes back two years.

Without looking, who is #1 in the Golfweek Sagarin rankings that go back just one year?

I'm thinking it'll take about five guesses before someone gets it.  If you've recently looked, let's give those who haven't seen the Sagarin rankings a chance to guess.

THuckaby2

Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2004, 03:09:32 PM »
I have never looked at Sagarin rankings for golf.  I don't even like them for football or basketball.  But I digress....

So if guesses are allowed, make mine the golfer formally known as Eldrick.  Schmidtty's stats there positively gave it away.  If that's how it is calculated (finish vs. the field each day) there can only be one man at the top.  I'd guess Vijay is pretty close there also though... But he plays SO much more, he has bad results mixed in with the good.  Tiger plays very seldom and when he does he's damn near never out of contention.

TH

JakaB

Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2004, 03:17:31 PM »
Please don't cry about the Ryder Cup if you don't care about wins.....Tiger makes his money from tube time...at his income level wins don't pay any extra..

Lets have Sagarin rate golf courses.....Rustic would be top 100 based on rounds played alone...it must be good if it is crowded..

THuckaby2

Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2004, 03:19:53 PM »
Hope you're not directing that at me, John.  I did not give my thoughts as to who I personally think is the best player in the world.  Hell yes wins are the coin of the realm there.  I was only opining on how I think Sagarin has it.  And I'll be damn surprised if Tiger isn't #1 there.

TH

John_Conley

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Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2004, 03:24:09 PM »
I'll give you a hint -- in his last 21 tournaments (84 rounds), he's only been beaten by other players in the field a total 193 times.  Put the calculator away.  I'll help you out.  On average, that works out to 2.26 players per day that beat him.  

Shiv:

I haven't dissected the data, but doesn't that mean 193 people have beaten him in 21 tournaments for an average of 9 (or a 10th place finish)?

Mike Benham

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Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2004, 05:38:23 PM »
Tom Huckaby ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Dennis_Harwood

Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2004, 10:36:19 PM »
A surprising list-- But I don't think its current!

Its Sararin for the period through 8/31 (same as the "World Rankings" period), but its likely "altered" by recent results--

John_Conley

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Believe it or not, it's Tiger
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2004, 10:39:13 AM »
Most recent Sagarin posted yesterday on Golfweek's website showed Tiger Woods at #1 with a very slight edge over Vijay Singh.  It indicated that the Boston tournament was included.

Pretty surprising stuff.

While Tiger is clearly not at the level he was, his results are consistently solid.  Tom Lehman became the #1 for a very brief period in the Official World Rank and he's never been a big "winner" that reels off a lot of PGA Tour victories.  A few, but not a trove.

Mike Benham

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Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2004, 11:33:33 AM »
Note the number of tournaments that Tiger plays and strength of field (just like quality wins in NCAA football).  Vijay plays almost twice as many tournaments than Tiger with some of those tournaments having less than stellar fields.

A top 10 finish in the Tuscon Open can't be high in quality points.
"... and I liked the guy ..."

John_Conley

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Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2004, 11:42:24 AM »
Mike Benham:  

That's it, not to mention the fact Vijay has a good number of finishes outside the Top 25 while Tiger only has one in 2004.

Here is a story that ran in today's Sentinel.  Pretty sure I'm the one that tipped off our columnist with an e-mail that Tiger was still on top in the Sagarin.

--

By Steve Elling | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted September 8, 2004


It's sanctioned and certified now, of course.

Tiger Woods' reign as the No. 1 player in golf ended Monday when archrival Vijay Singh toppled him from the princely perch he'd occupied for five years atop the official world rankings.

Yet once again, in certain precincts of Florida, there needs to be a recount in terms of the tally on those fateful ballots.

The sport's second-most cited computer ranking system, compiled weekly by Orlando-based Golfweek magazine, somehow still lists Woods as No. 1 by a hair this week, despite the fact that Singh holds a whopping 6-to-1 margin in 2004 victories over our man from Isleworth.

As it turns out, the official world rankings are to Golfweek's rankings what Top-Flites are to Titleists. That is, they are both popular golf balls, but a cross-section cutaway indicates that they are of a wholly different construct. You thought golf was all about the final score? Who knew there were so many quasi-subjective variables with which to weigh a guy's performance?

The biggest difference between the two competing methodologies is that Golfweek's numbers are based on a rolling 12-month period, versus the two-year window of the far slower-to-change world rankings. Which is why Golfweek publisher Jim Nugent was a little surprised at how his rankings looked Tuesday morning.

"Wow," he said. "It does to a certain degree undermine what we've been saying about the one-year window being more of a reflection of how they are really playing."

Yes and no. Golfweek's rankings measure players based heavily on head-to-head play and performance against the total field. Thus, Singh's six wins don't mean as much if he has a few forgettable 30th-place tallies mixed in to dilute the totals. Woods, meanwhile, hasn't been winning much, but has been rolling up top-10 finishes almost every week.

Over the past 52 weeks, Woods is 11-9 in head-to-head meetings against Singh in events in which both were entered. In terms of their average finish over the past 12 months, Woods has finished in 10.6th place, while Singh logs in at 17.1, Golfweek deputy editor Jeff Babineau explained.

Singh has finished 20th or worse, or missed the cut, in eight events in 2004. Woods has 12 top-10 finishes this year and only once has finished outside the top 25 -- when he finished 46th as the four-time defending champion at the Bay Hill Invitational. So this clearly isn't a case of cooking the numbers in favor of the Orlando-based player.

"It's just a difference in the way we measure and weigh things," Babineau said.

No weigh? Way. There are wider variances elsewhere. Heathrow's Chris DiMarco is ranked 12th by Golfweek and 17th in the world rankings.

Actually, it was Golfweek that first anointed Singh as No. 1, formally affirming what most fans already knew in their gut, way back on March 29. King Singh held that spot until May 10, when Woods edged past him again -- despite the fact that Singh has since won three times and posted two other top-four finishes.

As they say in the computer trade, go figure.

Jerry Kluger

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Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2004, 03:00:31 PM »
Okay guys here is the proposition.  You have 2 events left for the year where Tiger, Vijay, Ernie and Phil will be playing, i.e. the Amex Championship in Ireland and then the Tour Championship.  What would you expect the odds to be with respect to each of them and where would you put your money.  My instincts tell me that the short odds would be on Ernie, then Tiger, then Phil and then Vijay and my money would be on Ernie.  He's playing all over the world and playing great golf.  I know he didn't win any of the majors but when the time comes my money is on him.  I'm not taking anything away from Vijay but the question is who do you want as your horse when the chips are down.  

Philip Gawith

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Re:Golf Trivia: Who is #1 in the World?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2004, 03:07:36 PM »
i am surprised at any system of ranking that puts tiger above els and mickelson over the last twelve months, never mind vijay. els's record in the majors over the past two years is way in excess of tiger. aren't those the tournaments that count? i don't know the details of how the rankings are calculated, but it certainly feels as if they are biased towards the size of the purse and the US. how about a ranking system that takes more account of tournaments played ex US, and the quality of the courses. surely ernie's 60, and subsequent victory, around royal melbourne is a bit m more meritorious than another run of the mill pga tour event on a ho-hum course? but i am biased....