Last weekend, in our club championship, we suffered through a bizarre set of pin locations on Sunday.  The Saturday pins had been fine, with the 6 easy, 6 medium, and 6 difficult formula pretty much intact.  Sunday was another story, with (by my personal count) 12 difficult pins, 2 that were marginally medium, and the other 4 in the medium to easy range.  None were "easy."  Lower flights struggled, upper flights were frustrated, and nobody had much fun.

We have a relatively inexperienced pro, and I want to be constructive in my criticism(s), so I am trying to put together a set of pin locations for a two-day flighted tournament.  Other than the general 6-6-6 formula, does anybody have any other philosopical guidelines that would be helpful to me?  For instance, on the last par 5, I'd like to see the possibility of a three in play on Sunday, while on 18, I'd like to see emphasis on a quality up-and-down opportunity.

Thoughts, or past experiences?  BTW, please don't be distracted by wondering how this happened; I'm just trying to offer a viable alternative to the club for next year.  Thanks in advance!

I look at making sure all the Par 3's require a different club in your hand so be thinking of tee box and pin locations.

Another suggestion is to make sure you are balancing back-middle-front pin locations along with left-middle-right evenly.

You certainly don't want a dominance of back left or front right throughout the course set up.

In a multi day event, I like to give a different look by moving tee boxes as well offering up some risk-reward shots you mention. A good shot at eagle on a Par 5 one day with a much more difficult pin the next.

We have a Par 4 where one day I placed the Tee Box at 275  from the middle of the green. Lots of guys were thinking 2 or 3. Some got the easy 3 but far more found trouble carding 5 or 6.  

Green speeds play into consideration. We have lots of undulation so 9.5-10 run well and members aren't 4-5 jacking all day.

AG,

If the pins were on the greens, and there was no appreciable change in slope within 3 feet of the hole, I don't see a problem.  It's the same for everyone.

Hunt,
Thanks for those thoughts; that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for exactly.  I'd appreciate any other thoughts that occur to you.

Trust me when I tell you that this isn't whining about tough pins or my score.  I'm not willing to tell the entire story, but suffice it to say that my concern is to find a constructive way to be, on the one hand, critical of what we had last Sunday, and on the other, offer an alternative.

I will tell you that I have played over 800 rounds on the golf course, and there were 4 pins I have NEVER seen.  One pin was recut before play started, one was changed DURING play (done between flights to more or less be fair), and one was puttable ONLY from off the green.  That's 7 of the 18, if that gives you a flavor! Just take my word for that part, and don't tell me that you think it should be tough, etc.  So do I!  This was something else entirely; it was sloppy, lazy, etc., but I'm trying to help.  

If you have suggestions or thoughts about how people who are good at course setup go about it, I'd REALLY, REALLY, REALLY appreciate the help!  If you want to tell me that you think its "the same for everyone" or other such banalities, without having ever seen the course, much less the setup I'm talking about, then wait for another thread.

A.G.:

As far as balancing difficulty over the days of an event, the PGA Tour uses the following guideline in some way, if I recall correctly.

Prior to the event, four hole locations are identified, and ranked with 1 being the easiest, and 4 being the most difficult (of course they take care to make sure that all the 4's aren't left, or all the 1's right, etc.). So on each green, the hole locations total 10 (1+2+3+4). Over 18 holes, this is 180, so for each day they try to maintain an overall cumulative number of 45 (180/4).

This may not help you much for a two day event, but it may give you some insight into how balance is achieved at the Tour level.

All the best,

Doug

6. I've worked at 7 golf courses in my life. There is no way that the pro knew the course better then the supt at any of them. Working together is probably the best approach, but leaving the supt out of the equation is like leaving the chef out of the menu planning for a big banquet.

Don,

Eloquent post, but it needs to be said that your understanding of the game is above average for superintendents, as well as most other folks.

Good thoughts.

Joe

Thanks, gentlemen, for the ideas.

Patrick,
I haven't set pins, and that IS inexperience. Duh...
If you have, then how about something constructive about how YOU do it?  Is that so much to ask?  THAT might actually be helpful!

AG,  Having setup hundreds of courses for events, I can say that many of the suggestions given were good.  I don't like it when the person in charge (pro, super, chairman of the Rules Committee) uses the 18 hardest locations on the final round as Tom Paul seems to.  I think a good mix between the two days would be good.  I also think that it is a good idea to have a few easier hole locations where birdies can be made.  After all the best players are better at making birdies, just as they are better at saving par at hard hole locations.  It gives them a chance to get back the one or two shots they might have lost on the tough ones.

Some guidelines I use are:

1) Try to balance left and right pretty closely in order to not favor the player who hits a draw vs the one who fades.  It also requires everyone to work the ball both ways.  I don't worry until it gets above 11-7 on one side.  The superintendent at a course recently gave me a set of hole locations that had 13 left and 5 right.  I moved 3 just to balance it some.

2) I don't worry about balance in depth, but I do try to make sure that front hole locations be where a player hitting the correct shot in can stop the ball.  Putting a hole 5 paces behind a bunker on a firm green where a 3-iron is required not good.  Putting it 5 paces on when you can run it up is ok.  But, that being said, if you can run it up to one or the other side and have a 15-20 footer, I'll put it behind that bunker to test the brains of the player.  In other words, consider the architecture of the hole and how the good/smart player can approach it.

3) Consider the abilities of the field.   Putting holes 3 and 4 paces from the edge with a severe drop off to the side might be fine for the PGA Tour, but the average club player can't handle it and it will slow up play.

4) Try to play some visual games on the players.  If you have a green where you can put the hole behind a bunker and make it look much scarier than it is, it works for me.  Also, put a hole right in the middle of a green, but make it so that missing to one side leaves a really tough putt.  The average player sees that one and goes right at it without considering which side to miss it.  The good player thinks about that.

6-6-6 is fine, but everyone's definition of hard/medium/easy differs so I don't try to worry about it much.   But in setting up a multi-day event I try to do what Doug mentioned about the points system.

To Don Mahaffey and Pat K,

It sounds like you've both been in the business for a while.  Certainly you pull information from your years of experience, an invaluable tool.

I've been at courses where the supt. doesn't even play golf.  How in the world will he know what are good and bad pin locations if he doesn't play the surfaces he maintains?

At other facilities, I've set pins, the supt. has set pins, but the best outcomes have been collaborations.  If you haven't had this type of relationship with your pro, that's unfortunate.  If the pro is either ill informed or not interested, that again is unfortunate.

Your advice to AG is certainly valid, but there are better situations that exist out there than apparently you've experienced.

KFry,
As a bit of history, we had a head pro for a number of years who set up the course for tournaments, and was excellent at it.  The membership had come to take for granted that the job would be done well, I think.  He put a lot of time and thought into the process, and still played competitively and was very serious about it. (BTW, it is a non-equity club, and there is no Greens Committee as such, though the staff might be amenable to someone from the member's association to be involved.  I don't know that the question has been asked.)

That pro left a little over a year ago, and the new guy, who moved up from an assistant's position, delegated the setup to the greenskeeping staff this year, after doing it himself last year.  I think he took some serious heat last year, and just decided to opt out; in any event, the two days were handled by two members of the greenskeeping staff.  One did a very acceptable job (Sat.), the other was a disaster (Sun.).  Again, all I want to do is offer something constructive instead of just more bitching and moaning to whomever might end up setting up the course next year.  

I've read some good stuff here from some really experienced and thoughtful sources.  Thanks!

If "fairness" is a concept you desire to pursue, I would suggest that half the hole locations placed near edges be on the right of the green and half on the left.

Three inviolate rules of golf.

1. Play the ball as it lies.

2. Play the course as you find it.

3. When neither of those is possible, do what's fair.

"I do the hole locations for tournaments ."

LenBum:

In that case YOU should carry your putter and 2-3 balls at all times and become more familiar with those greens and everything about them than anyone else in the world!  

Frankly, I can't imagine much that'd be more fun than attempting to become completely familar with all things about the greens of Shinnecock by testing pin locations!