[Tom Soileau]

The below news release is being distributed by The Ohio State University athletic department.

Aug. 6, 2004

For Immediate Release
OSU Contact: Tim Stried 614-292-0134/stried.3@osu.edu
 
Nicklaus Design to Renovate Ohio State Scarlet Golf Course;
Firm of former Buckeye great Jack Nicklaus awarded project

COLUMBUS, Ohio - The task of renovating the Ohio State Scarlet golf course has been awarded to Nicklaus Design and former Buckeye and golf great Jack Nicklaus. The project, which is expected to begin this fall or in the early spring of 2005, will include direct involvement from Nicklaus himself, who won the 1961 NCAA Championship while at Ohio State, and his son Gary, another former Buckeye.

The renovations to Scarlet will cost an estimated $1.2 million and will include a redesign of all bunkers, including bunker drainage revisions, expansion of the driving range, a review of the existing greens for possible re-contouring, a review of the tees for possible reconfiguration and the recommendation for the addition and/or removal of trees.

“We are delighted that The Ohio State University has chosen Nicklaus Design, including my son Gary and me, to be involved in the renovation of the Scarlet course,” Jack Nicklaus said. “Ohio State golf and the Scarlet course were very much a part of our collegiate careers, and played a significant role in some of our fondest memories of growing up and playing golf in Columbus. Because The Ohio State University provided me so much in my life, I hope this can serve as a token of my appreciation for allowing me to continue to be part of the OSU ‘Buckeye’ family.”

"We are thrilled to have Nicklaus Design work with us to restore and renovate our treasured Scarlet Golf Course," Andy Geiger, Ohio State director of athletics,  said. "I know that Jack and Gary Nicklaus and their wonderful team of architects will apply their vast knowledge and expertise to lovingly retain the Alister MacKenzie design and yet modernize the course to make it a challenge for the modern golf era."

Funding for the course renovations will come from a $10 million endowment gift from the Al and Martha Phipps Golf Course Fund. A 1936 graduate of the OSU College of Engineering, Al Phipps died in 1999, while his wife, Martha, who also was an Ohio State student, died last year.

The Phippses previously funded a $500,000 scholarship endowment fund that annually helps pay the tuition for three Buckeye golfers. Over $5 million from their estate has already been contributed to the new fund, which, in addition to covering the expense of the renovation, will benefit the men's and women's golf teams and provide for future maintenance of Ohio State's golf facility.

Renovations are expected to be complete by the time the NCAA women's golf championship returns to the Scarlet course in 2006.

Based in North Palm Beach, Fla., Nicklaus Design is recognized as the world leader in golf course design. The firm has 275 courses open for play in 27 countries and 36 states. Jack Nicklaus has been involved in 230 of those projects. Nicklaus Design has 76 courses that have hosted a total of almost 500 professional tournaments worldwide or national amateur championships, and 36 Nicklaus designs have been named to various national and international Top-100 lists.

Senior Design Associate Greg Letsche, another Ohio State alumnus, will also work on the Scarlet course.

"We at Nicklaus Design have been asked to restore and modernize a mid-1930s Alister MacKenzie design," added Nicklaus, who won a record 18 professional major championships and more than 100 tournaments worldwide. "It will be fun and we are looking forward to doing just that."

[rgkeller]

Can a GARY NICKLAUS signature course be far behind?

[Bill_McBride]

It's interesting that JN didn't mention the MacKenzie heritage of the Scarlet course.  Considering his life long love affair with ANGC, you'd think MacKenzie would be uppermost in his thoughts.  Perhaps he will get Tom Doak, a recognized MacKenzie restoration expert, involved in this project.  Hopefully Jim Lipe will see this thread and make this suggestion, which would make so much sense.  I love what Tom has done at the Valley Club with his renovation of green surrounds and bunkering, this could all be done with great sensitivity at OSU.  Given the Sebonac collaboration, this makes even more sense.

[Brad Swanson]

Hopefully I'll be able to get a few rounds in this fall before the renovations start to be able to provide a decent before/after comparison.  From my brief visit earlier this summer, I hope they decide on more tree removal than tree additions.


Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Jim Sweeney]

This could be a very positive development for the Scarlet Course. IMHO, the course is overrated. The McKenzie name carries a lot of clout there, but I've been slightly disappointed each time I've played it, four times in all. Remember that although McKenzie did the design, he was dead before it was built, and therefore probably didn't become what it might have, given a fine routing. I just never got the same "McKenzie rush" I got from Pasatiempo and Crystal Downs. Perhaps that was due to course conditioning, which, like so many older collegiate courses, degrades due to budget stress and overplay.

Allow me to go a little off topic. The man whose generosity is making this possible, Al Phipps, was a sweet, humble guy who loved his wife, loved OSU, and loved golf. Al was a member of the USGA's Senior Amateur Championship committee, and a member of Ross's Congress Lake Club outside Canton, Ohio. Childless, Al and Martha dedicated all of there wealth to OSU, and the gift to the course might be just a part of their total commitment to the University. One man stepped in to do what 1000 men should have done for the Scarlet years ago. Yale should be so lucky.

It would be a masterstroke If Nicklaus recognized Tom Doak's love for and expertise in McKenzie designs. Despite the Sebonack collaboration, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if Nicklaus were to invite Doak to consult on the Scarlet. Would Doak dare suggest it during a walk around at the Long Island project?

[Mike Hendren]

Am I missing something here?  I thought Jack was a big-boy.

Mike

[Jim Sweeney]

Mike, you're right. Absolutely.

My business is one which is traditionally full of "lone rangers." My firm has taken the opposite approach- noone can be an expert in everything. So in the last two years there are probably not ten contracts written that were not joint efforts.

If JN is a McKenzie expert, or if he has one on his staff, it will be news to most of us here. Big boys want what is best for everyone, which may include going outside their immediate world to get the job done right. We can be certain Mr. Nicklaus wants what is best for his alma mater. Put yourself in the position or restoring anything of value. Isn't your first question, "who is the best expert I can find to get this done right?" Maybe Nicklaus has all the expertise needed in his firm. If so, God bless him and good luck to him.

[T_MacWood]

As far as I know the last MacKenzie course Nicklaus overhauled was the Australian GC--I do not believe that course is considered a MacKenzie any longer. It is 100% Nicklaus.

Maybe my friends in Australia will correct me, but it is my impression the AGC is not close to being in the same class as the relatively unaltered MacKenzie courses in that country. Royal Melbourne being considered one of the top designs in the world.

It appears the athletic department and the committee had no interest in completing the uncompleted MacKenzie design. A very sad development IMO. With all due respect to Nicklaus & Co., I would prefer to resurrect (or complete) a plan submitted by arguably the greatest golf architect to ever live--MacKenzie.

If I am wrong and the idea is to complete the MacKenzie plan, Nicklaus would seem to be an odd choice based upon his totally empty restoration resume, much less MacKenzie restoration resume.

After MacKenzie's death, the athletic director St.John (who orginally hired MacKenzie after falling in love with Cypress Point and PBGL) sought expert advice as to who should complete the project. He was told Ross was the top living architect, but the experts and St.John concluded by hiring Ross they'd get a Ross and why do that when you've got a MacKenzie. An illustration of the brilliant MacKenzie's reputation even back then. Unfortunately today the powers that be don't appear to recognize that genius.

[T_MacWood]

BillV
I'm not sure if your comment about inbreeding was an attempt for humor or simply meant to insult. You failed in the first case and succeeded in the latter.

[TEPaul]

JimS:

A couple of very fine and realistic posts on your part! I don't know OSU Scarlett at all but your point that MacKenzie may have designed it but he was dead when it was built is worth keeping in mind----as to whatever that may indicate.

But if in some way restoring the course to what may be a look or feeling of Mackenzie is the desired goal or the idea here, it would be nice if Jack (or whoever it will be in his organization) would reach out to anyone who may be of assistance--at least for research. That should logically include Tom Doak (he wrote the book on MacKenzie and certainly claims him as one he most admires) as well as someone like Tom MacWood, who has shown himself to be a diligent provider of all kinds of interesting historic research material that can be helpful to invaluable to an architect on a project like this. I also think OSU Scarlett is the course that Tom MacWood nominally considers his home course!

But, for Jack or anyone else getting into the OSU Scarlett course, Mackenzie, or historical research material and what it may mean to this project probably the best thing for all to keep in mind is that wonderful adage that probably best applies to anyone in or interested in architecture;

"To know what you don't know!"

[TEPaul]

Tom MacW:

Don't concern yourself with the things redanman says on here--most everything he writes on this site is silly, stupid or just plain underinformed! He must equate criticism and sarcasm in some way with knowledge or intelligence!  

[A_Clay_Man]

The statement that it's a restore, with a modernization, smacks of wiggle room. The softening of contours is a bad idea, in principle. Let's just hope it's done with care, which should respect the Phipps legacy.

JS- Thanx for going off topic! That was important.

[Tom_Doak]

You must be joking, right?  I'm not a consultant to Jack's company.

We had a chance to make a presentation on the consulting position for the Scarlet course and I chose not to pursue it, because we already have so many other commitments [including Sebonack].

It's just as well I didn't bother, probably, since it would have been difficult to beat Jack for the job at his alma mater.

[RJ_Daley]

Since I have never seen the OSU Scarlett course, I can only ask questions...

Are the green contours what one would call "Maxwell Rolls"?  Can anyone draw a comparison to the greens from Scarlett to the ones found at Crystal Downs?  

What does the 1.2 million remodelling budget include?  Green recontouring also means green subsoil and drainage enhancement, and the bunker remodelling mentions new drainage in the article.  If there is also a new or additional upgrade of irrigation, which seems logical if that work is to be undertaken in the scope of work described, then that almost doesn't even leave room for the archie fee.  Is JN doing it more or less gratis of his own usual fee as an alum donation?

I remember a bit of debate a few years ago between JN, Mike Hurdzan and Weiskoff, all alums about the pending job to restore or remodel.  Hurdzan wrote about the unique native or evolved strain of poa turf on the greens.  Are the present contours too much for a new super cultivar of bent grass and the speeds that they can produce?   Are the present greens too contoured or too bumpy and inconsistent due to the mish mash of poa-bent and whatever else is in there?

Can Nicklaus reproduce the MacKenzie style of bunkering, and does he want to?  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I wonder if Jack is doing his work for free and only charging the materials cost. That would show his true feelings abvout where he got his education.

[T_MacWood]

Tiger
Why should he donate the work for free? Who ever the architect--Ohio State man or not--I would expect him to be paid. I hope that wasn't one of the reasons for hiring Jack.

If I'm not mistaken Rees Jones, Tom Fazio and others have donated work in the past...I can name a few projects where a fully paid architect would have been preferable...often you get what you pay for.

[TEPaul]

"I remember a bit of debate a few years ago between JN, Mike Hurdzan and Weiskoff, all alums about the pending job to restore or remodel.  Hurdzan wrote about the unique native or evolved strain of poa turf on the greens.  Are the present contours too much for a new super cultivar of bent grass and the speeds that they can produce?"

RJ:

A few years ago the fear or rumor was that one of the new "super grasses" (A-1 or A-4 in the northern tier) had to be maintained too fast for some of the older course slopes and contours. After a few years of feedback, though, that has been proven not to be the case---eg those "super grasses" do not HAVE TO BE maintained at speeds too fast for green slopes and contours of a course like OSU Scarlett.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, I am not saying he should. I feel professional inkind contributions to your University are as important as cash ones. Jack has the ability to make such a gesture to the place that gave him and/or taught him to use many of the tools that have served him well in life. I have no where near the resources that Jack N has, but I give professional time and energy to LSU as often as possible.

[Joe Hancock]

I don't have any knowledge of how things work at OSU, but I do know someone who made the short list, and was actually meeting with the powers that be last Tuesday, August 3rd. Do decisions usually get done this quick, or was their mind made up before the final interviews, do you suppose?

Joe

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Come on guys, do you turn your brains off on Saturdays?  College football hasn't started yet.  You are missing the key in this media release.  Greg Letsche, senior design associate.  He is the key.  Changes will be what he decides.  Gary and Jack will be the tie to the public announcements, probably an opening round featuring Jack and Gary.  What courses has Letsche supervised?  What does he think of restorations, what is his history?
As for compensation, Jack and Gary should wave or lower the fee.  Pete Dye built one at Purdue for $1.  George Thomas never took a fee, and in fact paid for the construction of the Griffith Park courses.
Andy Geiger is one of the country's top ADs.  This is a high profile project and I trust he has thought this out.  Although I doubt he is demanding a restoration.  I haven't seen any of his posts here have you?

[Tom Soileau]

Come on guys, do you turn your brains off on Saturdays?  College football hasn't started yet.  You are missing the key in this media release.  Greg Letsche, senior design associate.  He is the key.  Changes will be what he decides.  Gary and Jack will be the tie to the public announcements, probably an opening round featuring Jack and Gary.  What courses has Letsche supervised?  What does he think of restorations, what is his history?
As for compensation, Jack and Gary should wave or lower the fee.  Pete Dye built one at Purdue for $1.  George Thomas never took a fee, and in fact paid for the construction of the Griffith Park courses.
Andy Geiger is one of the country's top ADs.  This is a high profile project and I trust he has thought this out.  Although I doubt he is demanding a restoration.  I haven't seen any of his posts here have you?

Lynn,

What makes you think Greg is the key to anything.  Jack Nicklaus is the key.  Jack assigned Greg as the senior design associate because he is also an OSU alum.  Greg worked for Pete Dye before coming to work for Jack.  He was the design coordinator at Cabo del Sol.  He worked in South Africa for a couple of years before being stationed in the North Palm Beach office.  Greg was the senior DA assigned to The Bear's Club, The Ritz and many other courses throughout Mexico, South America, South Africa and the Caribbean.  He is more than qualified to handle this work.  But do you seriously think that Jack will just let Greg do whatever he wants and have no input.  I will say it again, we all work FOR Jack Nicklaus.  Jack is the designer and it is our job to implement what he and client wants to do.  It doesnt' matter if it is Greg Letsche, Jim Lipe, Chris Cochran, Chet Williams, Jon Garner or any of the design associates, we all take what we have learned FROM Jack and make sure that is what is built.  In this instance I have no idea what OSU wants done, be it a renovation or restoration. But I assure you, if their wish is to restore the course as Alister had intended it, Jack, Gary, Greg and whomever from our company may be involved, have the resources, talent, skill and ability to do the job as well as anyone else.  

I will give Greg a call on Monday and learn more about what OSU has in mind for the course and post more for those of you who can put your petty jealousy aside.  I knew that posting that press release would incite exactly that and you guys didn't disappoint.  

[TEPaul]

The automatic suspicions of some on this website towards certain architectural companies, and the automatic suspicions of many in certain architectural companies towards some on this website do run high---and it seems to get worse all the time.

Some on this website seem to think certain architectural companies can basically do little right on older classic courses and some at those architectural companies act as if some on this website have no right whatsoever to question, even on this website, anything they do.

It's too bad it's that way but I guess it's to be expected!

[T_MacWood]

Tom S.
I don't doubt the company has abundant resources and many talented architects with the skill and ability necessary to build outstanding golf courses, but doesn't restoration work (in this case historic construction) require more than talent and resources?

In the past how has the company approached restoration work?

In the case of the Scarlet, you have a MacKenzie plan circa 1929-30, an existing golf course that follows the plan's routing but lacks the detail work MacKenzie intended. If the goal is to complete the plan and reintroduce his flair, how do you insure the details are completed in authentic MacKenzie style circa 1929-30...is it just a matter of resources and talent?

[DMoriarty]

What makes you think Greg is the key to anything.  Jack Nicklaus is the key.  Jack assigned Greg as the senior design associate because he is also an OSU alum.  Greg worked for Pete Dye before coming to work for Jack.  He was the design coordinator at Cabo del Sol.  He worked in South Africa for a couple of years before being stationed in the North Palm Beach office.  Greg was the senior DA assigned to The Bear's Club, The Ritz and many other courses throughout Mexico, South America, South Africa and the Caribbean.  He is more than qualified to handle this work.  But do you seriously think that Jack will just let Greg do whatever he wants and have no input.  I will say it again, we all work FOR Jack Nicklaus.  Jack is the designer and it is our job to implement what he and client wants to do.  It doesnt' matter if it is Greg Letsche, Jim Lipe, Chris Cochran, Chet Williams, Jon Garner or any of the design associates, we all take what we have learned FROM Jack and make sure that is what is built.  In this instance I have no idea what OSU wants done, be it a renovation or restoration. But I assure you, if their wish is to restore the course as Alister had intended it, Jack, Gary, Greg and whomever from our company may be involved, have the resources, talent, skill and ability to do the job as well as anyone else.  

I will give Greg a call on Monday and learn more about what OSU has in mind for the course and post more for those of you who can put your petty jealousy aside.  I knew that posting that press release would incite exactly that and you guys didn't disappoint.  

Mr. Soileau and Tom P:  

I think you both misunderstand Lynn's post.  No one questioned the senior DA's qualifications.  Lynn merely suggested that we find out more about him if we want to try to predict the result.  A reasonable point on a "restoration" as Jack Nicklaus calls it.  

Don't you agree that the success of a restoration depends upon the smallest details such as bunker shaping and edging, the subtlety and authenticity of the green contours, and the overall sense one gets when playing the course;  does it feel like a MacKenzie course?  Well quite frankly it is hard to imagine that even a man as talented as Mr. Nicklaus can oversee and guide all this detail work visiting as few as four times (I presume possibly less here because nothing is mentioned about a signature status.)

Plus you list out the Senior DA's terrific qualifications.  Why would Jack waste him on this project if the Sr DA didnt have any authority to call the shots?   My theory is you can usually find out the person responsible for the brunt of the work by reading down the letterhead to the last person capable of handling the job on their own.

If this is a restoration, I hope that Mr. MacKenzie has more say than even Mr. Nicklaus.

[TEPaul]

DavidM:

I'm not questioning Lynn Shackelford's post--not in the slightest---he makes some excellent points, basically implying some important questions about the Nicklaus Co's. approach to the OSU Scarlett restoration project (if that's what the University has in mind).

I also didn't realize the poster of this thread apparently works for the Nicklaus Co. If so, I think that's terrific he posted this thread on here. I'm not sure what kind of response TomS expected or was hoping for on here but it seems he's reacting to what he sees as suspicions on here of some kind of lack of talent of the entire Nicklaus Co. by those who contribute to this website.

I'm sure the Nicklaus Co has a lot of talent---and they've all probably shown it with various new construction projects. In my mind restoration work can be very different, and I think it's become pretty clear in the last 10 or so years that simply because an architect or architectural company is good at, or successful at new construction projects that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be good or successful at restoration projects.

Tom MacWood, and others such as Lynn Shackelford are right to ask what the Nicklaus Co, and anyone in it who's involved in the OSU Scarlett project intends to do in detail with both research and execution with the OSU Scarlett course if the intention is to restore it in some important way to what Alistier Mackenzie intended to do there before he died.

I've been saying for years on here that a club or client should get out there and research and collaborate with other clubs who've done Mackenzie restoration projects before them how to go about it correctly, particularly who to hire. The notion that any architect, even if it is the companies of some of the world's most recognizable architects can do a decent restoration job simply because the club asks them to in a general sense doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The OSU athletic department, or whoever is responsible at the course for the project should ask themselves which architectural companies have done the best Mackenzie restorations to date and go see those restorations. Just assuming that since Jack Nicklaus is an august alumni and a well known new construction architect that either he or someone in his rather large company can do the job well doesn't make much sense to me. At least OSU should've begun this whole idea witht the question--"Who out there has even attempted to restore Mackenzie courses?"

The club should've done that but they may not have. Now that the Nicklaus company has the job they should go do that research, though, in my opinion. Will they? I have no idea. They should avail themselves of whatever research regarding Mackenzie and whatever he may have intended for that course that they can find. To do that specifically with OSU Scarlett they should use whatever architecticural research resources they can find, perhaps even some on this site--perhaps Tom MacWood who I've already mentioned apparently considers OSU Scarlett to be his home course, and has proven himself to be good at least at coming up with research material that an architect could carefully analyze to do a decent job of restoring the course to the look, style and perhaps architectural intentions Mackenzie had for OSU Scarlett.

The suspicions on both sides seem to run high and the reactions from the contributors on here seem to automatically be that despite their talents in other areas of architecture the Nicklaus Co may not have the talent to do this kind of work. The suspicions from some of the architectural companies to those who feel that way on here seems to be defensive and that their talent shouldn't be questioned by those on here--or that that questioning on here is always inherently prejudiced.

I think that's all too bad. It's certainly possible for those contributors on here and those in the Nicklaus company to have a decent discussion and dialogue on here to at least find what's out there to guide the project and to determine what the plan is on the project from the Nicklaus company.

I think they both ought to do that on here instead of just carrying on a defensive dialogue that shows mutual suspicions and doesn't accomplish much benefical for Mackenzie's OSU Scarlett course restoration project (if that's even what the client, the OSU athletic dept has in mind).

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