#3 at Sand Hills

« **on:** March 22, 2004, 08:34:55 PM »

Does anyone out there have a picture of the par 3 # 3 at Sand Hills? I have a buddy who has a buddy who aced this hole a couple of years ago and would now like a picture of it. Please help if you can. Thanks

« **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2004, 09:34:37 PM »

Since I'm in the mood for starting controversy today, let me offer that the the par threes on the front nine at Sand Hills are the weakest overall holes on the course.

The 3rd and the 6th holes simply don't offer the type of adrenaline pumping golf that the rest of the course provides.

Thankfully, the par fives are the best on the planet.

« **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2004, 10:56:28 PM »

Quote from: Mike_Cirba on March 22, 2004, 09:34:37 PM

[T]he the par threes on the front nine at Sand Hills are the weakest overall holes on the course.The 3rd and the 6th holes simply don't offer the type of adrenaline pumping golf that the rest of the course provides.

Mike,

In the words of The McLaughlin Report: Wrong!

The third hole is a terrific par 3, with a variety of options and pin positions. If you saw my playing partner's ball take a full half minute to land front greenside left, bounce and roll along the green to the back face, then roll back down the hill to within feet of the back pin to the amazement of us all, you'd not be making such statements.

Similarly the 6th, though I agree more pedestrian, has a surfeit of outstanding pin positions that interest and challenge the player.

On one thing we'll agree, though--the back nine three pars are much better.

Best,

« **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:10:32 PM »

Mike

Wrong! I thought the 6th was perhaps the best par 3 of the lot. Better than 17.

« **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:14:10 PM »

Mike,
Have you gone mad! Your impending nuptials have sent you over the edge.

Just kidding, although I do think #6 is a pretty good hole. I don't recall anybody tearing it up in all my rounds there. The back nine par 3's are stronger, although there is a sameness to them. Same direction, uphill shot, yadda yadda.
I think #4 is the weakest hole on the course, but I haven't missed right yet.

Now were both going to have the treehouse chasing us.

« **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:24:11 PM »

I believe Mr. Cirba is making a point about how great the course is, by having to choose the weakest holes as 3 and 6. Not bad weak'ens!

« **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:27:46 PM »

Nah, Mike is trying to stir up trouble. Sand Hills is one of the greatest. When some of us were talking at Baltusrol last month we picked our three favorite courses. Mine are SH, NGLA, and Cypress. If I had to choose one to be a member at, SH is it, for reasons I listed on another thread.

Adam,
As you noted, weakness at SH is a relative thing.

« **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:30:00 PM »

What are the criteria in deciding what makes the course great. I would think that any sign of weakness may considerated it to be somewhat flawed. The fact that a hole does not get the adrenaline pumping may indeed be a strength of the course, definitely looking for balance.

« **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:58:46 PM »

Theresa,
First of all, welcome to the site. We could use a little diversity.
A great course most definitely doesn't have to have a succession of "adrenaline pumping" holes. The flow and balance as you noted are an important element of great courses.
A great course can have weaknesses. I haven't played one yet that didn't. If you look at the Doak scale a "10", to paraphrase, is a course that doesn't have any weaknesses and if you missed just one hole you would miss something special. I have played a number of 10's and they all have had at least one weak hole. Note I said hole, not green. All of the 10's I've played have excellent greens.

« **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:59:51 PM »

Quote from: ed_getka on March 22, 2004, 11:14:10 PM

I think #4 is the weakest hole on the course, but I haven't missed right yet.

Ed, what is weak about this?

« **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2004, 12:03:33 AM »

Kevin,
Shhhh, don't scare away the golfers.

« **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2004, 12:07:53 AM »

Ed,

As I recall that yawning bunker on #4 that Kevin R pictures is left not right. And no way that's a weak hole. The green may lack interest as has been discussed here at length before, but the rest of the hole (including the need to avoid said yawning, fearsome bunker lurking greenside left--that got MY adrenaline pumping!) is just fine by me.

Best,

« **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2004, 08:58:57 AM »

Considering the canvas, the discipline to not go "over-the-top", hole after hole, had to be ever-present, no?

« **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2004, 10:42:51 AM »

Quote from: Adam Clayman on March 23, 2004, 08:58:57 AM

Considering the canvas, the discipline to not go "over-the-top", hole after hole, had to be ever-present, no?

Adam,

This hits the nail on the head and is a real testament to the work of C & C. Frankly, I initially regretted not seeing more dramatic movement in the greens like the back right of no. 2. In hindsight, such undulations would have been inconsistent with both the balance of the course's design and intent.

Come to think of it, while I agree w/ Mike Cirba's comments, both of those greens have a significant amount of movement.

Mike

« **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2004, 11:22:56 AM »

Quote from: Cory on March 22, 2004, 08:34:55 PM

Does anyone out there have a picture of the par 3 # 3 at Sand Hills? I have a buddy who has a buddy who aced this hole a couple of years ago and would now like a picture of it. Please help if you can. Thanks

Cory,

Your friend should have known better than to make an ace on a non-architecturally loved hole at Sand Hills.

I'm sure somebody has a picture, but it might take them a few days of discussion before it shows up. You (or your buddy) may also want to send a letter to Mr.Youngscap (owner) at Sand Hills and see if you can buy a picture they make have of the hole.

« **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2004, 02:45:09 PM »

3rd

I'm convinced that 3rd and 6th are stronger than 13th and 17th. They are just more unusual and provide more options because the greens are better. (In The CG, T Doak agrees-he gives !! to 3rd and 6th and only ! to 13th and 17th.)

« **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2004, 02:57:56 PM »

Great picture, Paul;

I wonder if Tom would still give both of those holes "!!" after playing them. I believe his CG review was based on seeing the course and not playing it.

I think the 13th compares favorably to the terror of the 5th at Pine Valley from the back tee. No picnic up a set of tees either, yet I also saw great shots to within 15 feet, so it's eminently fair.

The 17th is the perfect little hole, the all too rare short par three. Coming after the transcontinental voyage of the 16th and prior to the uphill trek of the 18th, it isn't the place you want to loft one up too high on a windy day at this point in the round.

« **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2004, 04:04:11 PM »

Some of this comes down to where the par 3 falls in the round. #3 is good because it is early and still gives you some time to orient your mind to the use of the land and surrounds. The high left run up and bounce in side and the fall away right green is sort of a primer for getting the feel of the course. And it is into the prevailing wind, so it also gets you thinking about bringing it in low.

For my money, 17 is the best of the par threes there. It is also into the wind, usually. It is anywhere from an 8I to a 4 depending on wind. It has the greatest pucker factor with the ominous surrounds and bunkers and plays something like a shortish redan.

13 to the skyline green requires yo to really know your distance for the club your hitting and get it stopped.

6 is a psych job with the nearby top shot bunker staring at you and hiding half the green.

I rank them 17,13,3,6.

« **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2004, 04:10:17 PM »

Quote from: RJ_Daley on March 23, 2004, 04:04:11 PM

For my money, 17 is the best of the par threes there. It is also into the wind, usually. It is anywhere from an 8I to a 4 depending on wind. It has the greatest pucker factor with the ominous surrounds and bunkers and plays something like a shortish redan.

13 to the skyline green requires yo to really know your distance for the club your hitting and get it stopped.

6 is a psych job with the nearby top shot bunker staring at you and hiding half the green.

I rank them 17,13,3,6.

Dick,

I concur.

Best,

« **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2004, 04:18:33 PM »

Quote from: RJ_Daley on March 23, 2004, 04:04:11 PM

For my money, 17 is the best of the par threes there. It is also into the wind, usually. It is anywhere from an 8I to a 4 depending on wind. It has the greatest pucker factor with the ominous surrounds and bunkers and plays something like a shortish redan.

Dick, when you played #17 was the tee on the left in use? The reason I ask is that the irons you listed don't correspond to what my group used there, when we only used the lower tee (the back tee was no longer in play we were told). Granted we didn't have high winds to deal with, but it was a 9 or PW for me every time. All of my shots made it there except for my last trip through when I cold-topped my 9 iron. I'm not a long hitter so that is why I'm asking.

« **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2004, 04:33:35 PM »

Kev, we played it each time from the 148 blocks. I never used the hidden tee up on the hill. I think that one plays some 175yards. My best shot to 17 was with a 7I and into a mild wind. Hit it to 8-10ft and missed the put. $:-\$ I never played it downwind. I suppose 15-20mph down wind could get me thinking about a 9I.

This fellow thought 17 was rather difficult...

« **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2004, 04:35:00 PM »

Paul -- I love your Sand Hills photos. I seem to recall you posted a number of Sand Hills photos a year or so ago. Can we still access that post or that link?

« **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2004, 05:27:24 PM »

Quote from: Rick Shefchik on March 23, 2004, 04:35:00 PM

Paul -- I love your Sand Hills photos. I seem to recall you posted a number of Sand Hills photos a year or so ago. Can we still access that post or that link?

Rick, if you have broadband (the amount of pics to load is immense) you can click on Pauls name up above. There you will find a drop-down menu that allows you to see his last 10, 25 or 50 posts. The menu includes an option to see All of his posts. Then wait a few minutes as all of those beautiful pics will load. Have fun.

« **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2004, 11:55:01 PM »

I think the 17th at Sand Hills is a very fine hole, but I also think it's overrated (on GCA) within the what's on offer at Sand Hills. Yes it's cool to have a short par 3 on a windy site, but it's pretty much the same shot regardless of the pin position and it's not as slippery or as interesting as a hole like the 8th at Troon.

My order of the par 3s at Sand Hills: 3,6,13,17. But could swap 3 and 6.

Rick

That Sand Hills thread is somewhere, about 7-8 months ago?

« **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2004, 05:09:08 AM »

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=6376;start=0

Here is the Sand Hills link.

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