[George Pazin]

Craig -

Rustic Canyon won the Best New Affordable course from Golf Digest (last year I think). I think Applebrook got points for Best New Private a couple years ago but didn't win, place or show.

[Craig_Rokke]

Thanks, George.    RC definitely deserved that honor.

[David Wigler]

Angels Crossing (Near Kalamazoo, MI) is going to be very tough to beat in the best new affordable category.  Bruce Matthews has posted pictures of it in the past.  I cannot wait until it opens this coming spring.

[Larry_Rodgers]

The Golf Club of Scottsdale will be officially openning in February. Is located about 1 mile east of Troon North on Dynomite Road. Design by Jay Morrish and Dick Bailey with financing provided by the Crown family. Private club with no housing around the course, some future practice holes may be added around future villas. Probably one of the last courses to be built in the north Scottsdale area due to water restrictions and the developmental costs of the raw water lines.  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Also in AZ, the soon to open Raven at Verrado(Fought/Lehman) looks like a contender in the upscale publiccategory.

I think TGC Scottsdale will slug it out with Outlaw and Old Sandwich in the private category.

Steve

[John Foley]

Ian,

Eagles Nest looks great. How much of it was via your hand. Much I hope! How close is it to Copper Creek? From the map I think it looks like a very do-able 36 hole.

Would love to hear more if possible.

[Tom_Doak]

Steve S:  What the heck is Outlaw?  (I didn't see it listed above.)  Also, I wonder whether Olde Sandwich will be open in time to be considered for the 2004 award.  I certainly think Sutton Bay would contend in the Private category.  

I'd be very surprised if Stonewall Two figured highly.  It was designed for the membership, not to win any awards:  it's too short, the greens are too severe, and it's too much fun.

However, I'll be disappointed if I don't make a clean sweep of the International category.

[moth]

You may well have a lock on those awards indeed Tom, but I am a little disappointed that you have not seen fit to mention our latest effort in western Ubekistan. It is a bit like Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle Dunes wrapped up on one site, but without the dunes, the sea or the views. But in fact exactly like them but with a raw, young, hip, edgy, industrial post-nuclear holocaust feel (minalmilism can only carry you so far in Ubekistan).

In fact President Omar Uresti was telling me over 5 bottles of the local firewater that this course would soon be known as the 8th or 9th wonder of the world (either he couldn't remember how many wonders there were or he was too pissed to care). Certainly a wrap on best new course in Ubekistan!

Anyway, I will be expecting a visit from some Golf Digest raters soon and I believe Ron Whitten might pip his head in at some time to take a look (or smell).

Trust this gives you cause for some concern Tom!

Happy New Year to All!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Tom:
Outlaw is the 6th Nicklaus course at Desert Mountain. It's a non real estate, walking oriented course that just opened in November. It's on a separate property down the road from the main development. Our own Matt Ward has played there recently and has mentioned it in his thread "What's new in AZ."
You're probably right about Old Sandwich not being open in time to qualify.
I forgot to mention Sutton Bay in my post. Certainly, from what I've read and seen, it will be a top contender in the private category.
Your courses should certainly be at the top in the International category. Does GD have such a category? GD has a Canadian category. If not, who does?
I was slightly disappointed that I did not play Stonewall II this year as my host's other guest wanted to play Stonewall I!! Next year I will insist.
Steve

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Another new course that recently opened, Old Orange GC(Cupp) at the Verandah development by Bonita Bay Group in Ft. Myers, FL, will get some attention in the private category. I will be playing there during my upcoming January FL trip and will report afterwards. I really like the name of the course.

Here are some words from Cupp from www.cybergolf.com

The par-72 Old Orange layout is reminiscent of classic courses like Winged Foot, Baltusrol and Oakmont – a design concept that was inspired by the old-growth oak trees on the site. The course will appeal to all players, offering four sets of tees, from 5,193 to 7,118 yards. “The length from the various tees allows all players to have a pleasant round of golf,” said Cupp, recipient of Golf World’s first ‘Golf Architect of the Year’ and named a ‘Best Course Designer’ by Golf Digest. “There is wonderful variety. Where it is long, it is very long. Where it is short, it is just that, but delicate.”
Cupp predicts golfers will enjoy the beauty of Old Orange as it meanders through Verandah. “The rambling nature of the routing through the various old and new stands of oak is unquestionably a memorable experience,” said Cupp, who borrowed classic elements from great golf course architects like Donald Ross, Alister MacKenzie and A.W. Tillinghast. “Old Orange is a unique entry into the Southwest Florida golf market.”  
 
“We’re looking forward to welcoming our first golfers,” said head golf professional Chris Trottier. “Once they get on the course, they’ll understand what we mean by classic golf. The 18th hole is one of the most beautiful finishing holes I’ve ever seen.”  

[Matt_Ward]

Steve posted:

"The par-72 Old Orange layout is reminiscent of classic courses like Winged Foot, Baltusrol and Oakmont – a design concept that was inspired by the old-growth oak trees on the site"

Whenever I hear people start to LINK old classic courses in order to pitch their newest creation it makes me wonder if the marketing / pr / branding boys are the ones running the show in order to drum up members.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt
I realize the hype in Cupp's remarks, no more so than Fazio or anyone else who does a residential course. However, I'll be the judge on this course, even though I'm not a rater. Maybe, I'll take some pics.This is another large development from Bonita Bay Group. There will be another course built. I presume Cupp will do it as he did both courses at Shadow Wood at The Brooks in Bonita Springs, another development by the same company.
Steve

[Tom_Doak]

Matt and Steve,

Ten or twelve years ago, when every other architect was talking about how Scottish their courses were, I compared some of our work at Black Forest to George Thomas' and Alister MacKenzie's bunkering at Riviera and Cypress Point.

A couple of years later, other marketing people started making similar comparisons.  I quit cold turkey when Mark Brown compared the bunkering on a new Nicklaus course at Hilton Head to Woodhall Spa.  [If it was really that deep at Hilton Head, they'd be below sea level!]

Brett:  I hear there's some good land in Uzbekistan.  Since you know the president, you should convince him to donate this land to golf to help promote Western tourism.

Happy New Year!

[Richard Chamberlain]

You may well have a lock on those awards indeed Tom, but I am a little disappointed that you have not seen fit to mention our latest effort in western Ubekistan. It is a bit like Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle Dunes wrapped up on one site, but without the dunes, the sea or the views. But in fact exactly like them but with a raw, young, hip, edgy, industrial post-nuclear holocaust feel (minalmilism can only carry you so far in Ubekistan).

In fact President Omar Uresti was telling me over 5 bottles of the local firewater that this course would soon be known as the 8th or 9th wonder of the world (either he couldn't remember how many wonders there were or he was too pissed to care). Certainly a wrap on best new course in Ubekistan!

Anyway, I will be expecting a visit from some Golf Digest raters soon and I believe Ron Whitten might pip his head in at some time to take a look (or smell).

Trust this gives you cause for some concern Tom!

Happy New Year to All!

Pure gold Moggy, pure gold.
Happy New year.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ian,

Question: how did the 'links' theme for Eagle's Nest come about? Doug's done this at least one other time at Osprey Valley, right.

In other words, did the Eagle's Nest site suggest a 'links style' layout, or was there a conscious effort on the part of Doug, and perhaps the owners, to create one?

Just curious.

P.S. At $180 per round, too bad I'll never be able to play there  

[ian]

Jeff,

The site was very raw, mostly exposed sands and gravels. 13 holes were reclaimed from an area where sand was stripped for a landfill operation. A few areas are untouched, they appear as bluffs when pointed out on site. The project also involved the import of 1.4 million cubes; this was a requirement of the project, not a request from us.

Due to the nature of the site, the surrounding enviornment, and the requirement in placing fill; heathlands was the obvious choice. Osprey is more forced into the site than this one. It does fit the site well.

....and Jeff, you know you'll have a chance to play this course


John F,

I had nothing to do with this one. Cam Tyers and Doug created this course. Copper Creek is only a couple of miles away.


Paul,

The course looked really rough in the late summer and opening in May seemed unlikely, but Brent Rogers really got the last holes to jump in the fall. A couple of the holes on the front need some more love, but its generally ready to go. At the price there asking, the pressure of play will be limited (which is good).


Paul,

The course was built by a land developer (all earth moving and servicing were handled internally-equipment showed up when asked for), the superintendent acting as supervisor (hand picked for his experience building courses), did every detailed job from drainage, irrigation, through to hand formed cart path curbs. He brought in a family of shapers to create the moundings and golf features. It was very much an in-house job, so how do you create a cost?

[Dan Herrmann]

Scott Burroughs mentioned French Creek as a possibility
for Best New Private in 04'. The course has some fine attributes, and does deserve consideration. Other than not being the most walkable course around, it offers up a lot
of interesting golf, and a lot of attention to detail with its construction.

Craig,
With all due respect, it's a very walkable course.  The tough spot to walk is up the hill #13, but that elevation gain helps make it such a great hole.  And you're rewarded with great views up on the green of both Stonewall courses

[Scott_Burroughs]

Dan,

I think Craig is referring more to the length of the walks, not the hilliness, although I felt the entire trek of #6 and the walk to #7 tee was more tiring than the 2nd half of #13.

I'm about as die hard a walker as there is, but French Creek does have some hikes.  The two bigger ones easily are from #3 to #4 and from #15 to #16.  Shorter but still mini-hikes are #7 to #8 and #8 to #9.  Less so are the "wetlands walkarounds" on #3, #4, #9, and #11.  Great course, though.  

The pro is pretty cool, too.    Not your stereotypical pro...

[Craig_Rokke]

Scott is correct with what I was trying to say. The course
isn't that bad of a walk. Ive played dozens of courses that
I would characterize as a more difficult walk. In fact, I would
prefer to walk French Creek than ride.

I think if you take two of Gil Hanse's other courses, Rustic
Canyon and Applebrook, the properties allowed for a slightly
more cohesive, more rhythmic layout of the golf holes.
There is a wonderful pace to walking both, and something about that gets to the roots of what golf is all about . I'm just picking nits here with FC.

Overall, I do think French Creek is very good. Wish I could have signed up!

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