Tobacco Road/Bulls Bay

[Mike Rost]

Doing a buddies trip to NC this weekend to play TR (for the first time), Mid Pines, Southern Pines, Pine Needles.  The same group (all 10-15 handicaps) played Bulls Bay a few years back on a trip to Kiawah and loved it (I think the four of us all preferred it to the Ocean Course).  I can't find anything in the archives here discussing Bulls Bay and TR in the same thread.  Are they generally considered on the same level?  Anything interesting to note between the 2 courses?  Thanks all!

[A.G._Crockett]

Just very, very different golf courses.  While I wouldn’t call Bulls Bay “traditional”, it is in no way the crazy thrill ride that Tobacco Road is.  While I dearly love TR, I realize that it can be a polarizing golf course; I doubt there’s any of that with Bulls Bay.  With the exception of 9 and 18, I’m not even sure Bulls Bay would be immediately identifiable as a Strantz course.


And that’s the cool thing about Stantz courses, at least to me.  I’ve played all of them except Monterey, and there is absolutely no “sameness” to them.  I loved Bulls Bay, and I love The Road, but you won’t confuse them in your memory, I assure you.


My advice for a first time play at TR is to take the course for what it is, which is an absolutely unique piece of landscape art on which golf is played.  Forget score, and enjoy a course unlike any you’ve ever seen.  Embrace the uniqueness and the quirk.  And get a yardage book…

[cary lichtenstein]

I played all of his courses, Tobacco Road is by far my favorite, its in a class by itself

[Matt Kardash]

Just very, very different golf courses.  While I wouldn’t call Bulls Bay “traditional”, it is in no way the crazy thrill ride that Tobacco Road is.  While I dearly love TR, I realize that it can be a polarizing golf course; I doubt there’s any of that with Bulls Bay.  With the exception of 9 and 18, I’m not even sure Bulls Bay would be immediately identifiable as a Strantz course.


And that’s the cool thing about Stantz courses, at least to me.  I’ve played all of them except Monterey, and there is absolutely no “sameness” to them.  I loved Bulls Bay, and I love The Road, but you won’t confuse them in your memory, I assure you.


My advice for a first time play at TR is to take the course for what it is, which is an absolutely unique piece of landscape art on which golf is played.  Forget score, and enjoy a course unlike any you’ve ever seen.  Embrace the uniqueness and the quirk.  And get a yardage book…

I have not played Bulls Bay. I just looked at some photos. I would have 100% guessed it was a Strantz course. I am not sure how you are saying it is not easily identifiable as Strantz.

[Rob Marshall]

I loved Bulls Bay. There is a thread here somewhere on it.

[Scott Warren]

Bulls Bay and Tobacco Road are quite different sites and the end result is two quite different courses.

It’s hard to know if this is a pure feeling because you go in knowing they’re both by Strantz, but I feel like that same personality comes through in both courses. They’re both full of big decisions with thrilling shots on offer to be taken on or avoided.

And where the BB site didn’t give Strantz the terrain that TR did, he just went ahead and built an incredible landform as the hub of the course, which 1, 9, 10, 14, 15 and 18 all interact with.

They’re both magical experiences. On a 10 Round Split, I’d go 7-7!

[Ally Mcintosh]

The only Strantz courses I have played are Tobacco Road and MPCC Shore.


After playing the latter - which I loved - I asked my playing partner (a very knowledgeable gent) to rank the Strantz courses from first to last knowing he had played them all. Think he went TR, MPCC, Bull’s Bay as 1,2,3.

[Tom_Doak]

And that’s the cool thing about Stantz courses, at least to me.  I’ve played all of them except Monterey, and there is absolutely no “sameness” to them.  I loved Bulls Bay, and I love The Road, but you won’t confuse them in your memory, I assure you.

I am a big fan of both courses, but I think it's crazy talk to say there is no "sameness" in Mike's work.  MPCC is the only course of his where one might not immediately guess who did the design.

[Peter Sayegh]

And that’s the cool thing about Stantz courses, at least to me.  I’ve played all of them except Monterey, and there is absolutely no “sameness” to them.  I loved Bulls Bay, and I love The Road, but you won’t confuse them in your memory, I assure you.

I am a big fan of both courses, but I think it's crazy talk to say there is no "sameness" in Mike's work.  MPCC is the only course of his where one might not immediately guess who did the design.

Caledonia?

[Tom_Doak]

I am a big fan of both courses, but I think it's crazy talk to say there is no "sameness" in Mike's work.  MPCC is the only course of his where one might not immediately guess who did the design.

Caledonia?



Well, I saw that one before any of the others, so it was easy for me to identify that was his style and then see it ramped up in other places.  I guess some people would see it as much less edgy in context with his later work . . . but he really did a hell of a lot in a 100-acre shoebox!

[Peter Sayegh]

I am a big fan of both courses, but I think it's crazy talk to say there is no "sameness" in Mike's work.  MPCC is the only course of his where one might not immediately guess who did the design.

Caledonia?



Well, I saw that one before any of the others, so it was easy for me to identify that was his style and then see it ramped up in other places.  I guess some people would see it as much less edgy in context with his later work . . . but he really did a hell of a lot in a 100-acre shoebox!

Thanks Tom.
If his style is identifiable at Caledonia, I surely missed that but I'm now compelled to revisit it again with a more discerning eye.
Could any of his other sites be described as a "shoebox?"
If not, do you think that influenced the projects he accepted afterwards?