Secrets of 13 at NGLA

[Greg Hohman]

Lewis Lapham, former editor of Harper's, died this week. From his obit in the NYT: "Some readers saw a contradiction in Mr. Lapham’s affluent life and his stalwart liberalism. But he said he made his choice soon after graduating from Yale, when he applied for a job with the C.I.A., then a bastion of Ivy League elitism. The first question he was asked, he said, was 'When standing on the 13th tee at the National Golf Links in Southampton, which club does one take from the bag?' 'They wanted to make sure you were the right sort,' he explained. He found the question off-putting and dropped his spy ambitions for a career in journalism, although he said he knew the answer: a 7-iron."

[David_Tepper]

"'They wanted to make sure you were the right sort"

A sad and kind of shocking commentary. An echo of the attitude of Britain's MI6 service, which explains why Kim Philby ("the right sort") rose to such prominence despite being a mole for the KGB for 25-30 years.

[Dan_Callahan]

I don't get why that is such a probing question. It's a par 3. Get the yardage and make sure you carry the water (which isn't hard). I'd be far more interested to know what club someone pulls on the tee at 1 or 2.

[Steven Wade]

I'd be far more interested to know what club someone pulls on the tee at 1 or 2.

I hit driver on 1. I needed all 460cc to calm my shaky hands.

[Matt Schoolfield]

"'They wanted to make sure you were the right sort"

A sad and kind of shocking commentary. An echo of the attitude of Britain's MI6 service, which explains why Kim Philby ("the right sort") rose to such prominence despite being a mole for the KGB for 25-30 years.

I think there is more nuance to this, and I say this hoping I've established a reputation for being overtly egalitarian.

The more I learn about spy agencies, the more I realize that it's very important that most spies are both quite successful and quite wealthy. Firstly, wealth an success, on it's own, gives people a legitimate reason to be in any room and plausible deniability. It also helps these folks be in those rooms under natural pretenses, as subtle shibboleths could easily give you away -- knowing that the 13th is an Eden hole, and what an Eden hole is, for better or worse, is likely important cultural information that will get you into conversations with people who would otherwise be inaccessible.

My favorite example of this is Ian Fleming -- who was an actual spy -- and had every reason to openly discuss spycraft with literally everyone he encountered, including members of spy agencies who probably thought they were just talking to an author of fanciful spy novels.

That isn't to say that working for the CIA in general should require that sort of ridiculous pedigree, but if his intention was being an actual spy, the question makes sense to me.

[David Kelly]

John McCone was from San Francisco and went to California - Berkeley.  What did they ask him in his interview, "What club are you hitting on #15 at Cypress?"? 


I think his story was made up to prove a point.  Or maybe the CIA was made up entirely of golfers in the 1960s and 1970s. Which might explain their incompetence.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I don't get why that is such a probing question. It's a par 3. Get the yardage and make sure you carry the water (which isn't hard). I'd be far more interested to know what club someone pulls on the tee at 1 or 2.

Yeah, I had to look it up to make sure I was thinking of the same hole. Pros have hit 5I or more on #7 at Pebble Beach. Hit the club that gets you on the green.

[Matthew Lloyd]

Or maybe the CIA was made up entirely of golfers in the 1960s and 1970s. Which might explain their incompetence.

Very good. And true. Hahahahaha.

[Ally Mcintosh]

"'They wanted to make sure you were the right sort"

A sad and kind of shocking commentary. An echo of the attitude of Britain's MI6 service, which explains why Kim Philby ("the right sort") rose to such prominence despite being a mole for the KGB for 25-30 years.

I think there is more nuance to this, and I say this hoping I've established a reputation for being overtly egalitarian.

The more I learn about spy agencies, the more I realize that it's very important that most spies are both quite successful and quite wealthy. Firstly, wealth an success, on it's own, gives people a legitimate reason to be in any room and plausible deniability. It also helps these folks be in those rooms under natural pretenses, as subtle shibboleths could easily give you away -- knowing that the 13th is an Eden hole, and what an Eden hole is, for better or worse, is likely important cultural information that will get you into conversations with people who would otherwise be inaccessible.

My favorite example of this is Ian Fleming -- who was an actual spy -- and had every reason to openly discuss spycraft with literally everyone he encountered, including members of spy agencies who probably thought they were just talking to an author of fanciful spy novels.

That isn't to say that working for the CIA in general should require that sort of ridiculous pedigree, but if his intention was being an actual spy, the question makes sense to me.

I think this is correct.


And the answer to the question doesn’t matter other than to show he had played and recognised the 13th hole at NGLA.


The fact that he said he knew the answer, a “7-iron” also shows that he hadn’t. A spy would have elaborated on the answer exactly to find a soft spot and “in” with the person he’s talking to. Back to Matt’s point…


…. Maybe I should have been a spy instead of settling for golf course architecture!

[Greg Hohman]

If no reason emerges for the choice of 13 at NGLA beyond "nod wink, you belong, now we can talk," "OT" can be added to the subject of the thread. In the meantime, I will show my weakness-fondness for the partially buried or absent referent. Did something of importance in the espionage game happen on 13 (a person did something or said something) or happen on the site before NGLA was built? Or, hewing to the mandate here, is there something about the placement of the hole itself (it points in the direction of a noteworthy operation or a buried body) or about its being a par 3 (7 is the first number of a password)?

[Ira Fishman]

Well, to give you a tie back to gca, Lewis Lapham’s grandfather was a founder of CPC, and apparently his father assisted Mackenzie in its design/construction by hitting balls from different locations.
And to deepen the CIA “speculation,” Lapham’s brother was the General Counsel at the CIA, and there was an unrelated Lewis Lapham who worked at the CIA in the 1960s and 1970s.

[Tommy Williamsen]

007

[Tom_Doak]

Well, to give you a tie back to gca, Lewis Lapham’s grandfather was a founder of CPC, and apparently his father assisted Mackenzie in its design/construction by hitting balls from different locations.

Somewhere in my old correspondence files, I have a personal letter from that Lewis Lapham, describing his time with Dr. Mackenzie.  Frank Hannigan from the USGA had referred me to Lapham, because I'd said I might want to write a book about the various architects of yore.

[Ira Fishman]

Lewis H. Lapham wrote a detailed piece about his family’s involvement at CPC in Golf Digest in 2010. I would provide a link if I knew how to do so.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Lewis H. Lapham wrote a detailed piece about his family’s involvement at CPC in Golf Digest in 2010. I would provide a link if I knew how to do so.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/us-open-pebble-lapham

[Jim O’Kane]

John McCone was from San Francisco and went to California - Berkeley.  What did they ask him in his interview, "What club are you hitting on #15 at Cypress?"? 


I think his story was made up to prove a point.  Or maybe the CIA was made up entirely of golfers in the 1960s and 1970s. Which might explain their incompetence.

I wonder if he ever worked for the Lipset Service.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I don't get why that is such a probing question. It's a par 3. Get the yardage and make sure you carry the water (which isn't hard). I'd be far more interested to know what club someone pulls on the tee at 1 or 2.

I played two rounds at NGLA (from member tees @~6550 yards)  just two weeks ago.


Hole #1:


- 21 degree hybrid tee shot. 75-85 yard "flip wedge" into green.


Hole #2:


- 17 degree "4 wood" off tee. Both days, pin high but in left rough.


Hole #13:


- 9 iron from 158 with wind behind me plus counting for roll-out.


On the Redan #4, the pin was all the way back left both days and played 184 yards. One of the toughest pins I had ever seen in my life.

[BCrosby]

Well, to give you a tie back to gca, Lewis Lapham’s grandfather was a founder of CPC, and apparently his father assisted Mackenzie in its design/construction by hitting balls from different locations.

Somewhere in my old correspondence files, I have a personal letter from that Lewis Lapham, describing his time with Dr. Mackenzie.  Frank Hannigan from the USGA had referred me to Lapham, because I'd said I might want to write a book about the various architects of yore.

Many books in the USGA library, including runs of several important golf periodicals, were given by Lewis Lapham. I assume he is the same Lapham that Tom is referring to above.