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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Stakes
« on: June 22, 2024, 01:40:58 PM »
At White Bear YC our Par-5 4th hole has (in recent decades) has had a thick forest/brush to the near right side of the playing corridor, and was marked by white OB stakes. If you hit it in there the ball would of been likely totally unplayable.


Over the last couple of winters, the staff has been cleaning up the area situated within the corner of the hole's "dogleg" off the tee. Visually it has been a massive improvement as it has revealed more of a ridge/ravine like feature in that area previously covered up.


Since, there has been some debate as to if the area should be marked OB, red (hazard), or not at all since there is ~25-30 between the fairway to our true boundary line.


The area is more wild than our typical rough but in some cases you can find a ball in the area and advance it. There have been concerns that if it's anything other than OB, people will spend too much time looking for balls and it will slow down play.


I've seen some clubs (Shoreacres) remove all stakes and that seems to work just fine...if you think you might not find your ball you hit a provisional. Seems like most top end clubs are moving in this direction.


Curious what the treehouse thinks? Does anyone have any case studies or success stories?
H.P.S.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Stakes
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2024, 01:46:55 PM »
We have been working on Crooked Stick this month and I was surprised to notice they don't have o.b. stakes anywhere, even though there are homes around part of the course.  I don't know if it's club policy that you can play from somebody's back yard if that's where your ball is . . . it was the club itself that developed the homes, so there could be a covenant like that in the deeds . . . but I did like the lack of clutter, and the stakes would have been overkill for what must be a fairly rare occurrence.

Simon Barrington

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stakes
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2024, 02:56:16 PM »
We have been working on Crooked Stick this month and I was surprised to notice they don't have o.b. stakes anywhere, even though there are homes around part of the course.  I don't know if it's club policy that you can play from somebody's back yard if that's where your ball is . . . it was the club itself that developed the homes, so there could be a covenant like that in the deeds . . . but I did like the lack of clutter, and the stakes would have been overkill for what must be a fairly rare occurrence.
For OB - If there is a clearly definable physical boundary line then there is no need for loads of additional white stakes, simply and clearly define the boundary in writing on the Local Rules.


This works at Private Members Clubs as they get used to the definition, and for external run events there are likely roving Rules Officials to adjudicate any marginal calls.


Back (years ago) when I ran PGA Events we would try and avoid painting miles and miles of white lines (& other colours) by using sensible definitions, otherwise the course ends up like a crime scene (and for long after we have moved on)!


Less (clutter) is more (beauty)


In the example -


Red Stakes as a Penalty Area seems the most appropriate from the description.


OB White Stakes add a "Stroke & Distance" Penalty which is harsher, and play might be possible now the area has been cleared out?


If the area is determined to be a "No Play Area" (Penalty or otherwise; for player safety, or ecology/wildlife preservation etc.) then relief MUST be taken under Rule 17-1e.


Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stakes
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2024, 06:14:39 PM »
Years ago I recommended to our home club to modify the “white picket fence” look on our out of bounds areas. We now have green posts with a small white painted top which gives a much more subdued aesthetic. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Stakes
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2024, 06:15:55 PM »
Years ago I recommended to our home club to modify the “white picket fence” look on our out of bounds areas. We now have green posts with a small white painted top which gives a much more subdued aesthetic.


My friend Brian Morgan called this the Augusta rule:  if it doesn't move, paint it green.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stakes
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2024, 05:50:23 PM »
Doesn’t one of MacKenzie’s Principles mention something about no fun looking for lost balls?
3 minute search time these days too, not that many folks seem to take much notice.

Atb