[Craig Disher]

Ira,


Donald Ross didn’t install grass greens at Pinehurst No. 2 until the 1930’s. Perhaps this is why his greens at Pinehurst are a little different than his early Golden Age work? Pete Dye would have seen the greens within the first 10 years they were constructed.  The fact that Pete recognized the greens as being built up with topdressing would make me think Ross would still recognize his greens, but would likely come to the same conclusion.


Pinehurst hosted the 1936 PGA Championship and one article mentioned: “ Especially interesting were the approach contours Ross put in when he remodeled the greens for grass.”  Have you checked with the Tufts Archives to see if they have Ross’ original green plans for Pinehurst No. 2? I see they have a set of green plans from 1962, but they are clearly not Ross’ original plan.  The 1962 plans show no internal contour or slope, just the square footage. 


Other old articles I ran across mentioned Pinehurst experimenting with bent grasses.  If Pinehurst knew about these old articles, they may have never attempted to change the greens to bent in 1999.  I have never played Pinehurst No. 2 so I cannot comment directly on the greens, but I thought I would pass this historic information along to you.


Bret

One thing that anyone who has played both #2 and Mid-Pines will notice the difference in the greens. In 1938, Mid-Pines still had sand greens. By 1941 they had been converted to grass, presumably under Ross's direction and after the conversion at #2. Why are the two sets of greens so different? Were the #2 greens top-dressed much more aggressively than those at Mid-Pines?
For those unaware, there was a large collection of ground-level photos taken in the mid-50s of all the holes at #2 in the Noer-Milorganite collection at MSU. According to the index, each hole had a photo taken from the tee, mid-fairway, and at the green. Nearly all the photos have disappeared, the few remaining show none of the greens.

[Peter Sayegh]

Bret

One thing that anyone who has played both #2 and Mid-Pines will notice the difference in the greens. In 1938, Mid-Pines still had sand greens. By 1941 they had been converted to grass, presumably under Ross's direction and after the conversion at #2. Why are the two sets of greens so different? Were the #2 greens top-dressed much more aggressively than those at Mid-Pines?

Hope someone can answer this.

[Jim Sherma]

Not specifically about Pinehurst's greens - I am always surprised how much build up there is relative to the sprinkler heads around greens. Even on courses where I know work has been done fairly recently (10 years or so) there can be 2-3" of build up. I am certain that most every green we play is some largely evolved version of what was originally there.

[Charlie Goerges]

Not specifically about Pinehurst's greens - I am always surprised how much build up there is relative to the sprinkler heads around greens. Even on courses where I know work has been done fairly recently (10 years or so) there can be 2-3" of build up. I am certain that most every green we play is some largely evolved version of what was originally there.

How far down are sprinkler heads usually recessed? Are they built perfectly level with the top of the soil?

[Tony Ristola]

There are no plans for No.2, as they built the greens in the field. As-builts? Haven't heard of any. I'd guess they'd have ample photos of the greens in their early years, especially considering the PGA was held there after they converted to turf.


From the Whitten's article:


Ross lived in Pinehurst … when… he refashioned the No. 2 course…    Ross would walk the layout nearly every day, conjuring up another concept, another contour, another strategy. Maples would make it happen, sometimes massaging the final shape and flow of a green for a full week, using teams of mules with improvised wooden drags to float out the final contours from the native sand. They completed the course in time for the 1936 PGA Championship.  Maples' oldest son, Ellis… observed the work as a teenager. He confirmed to reporters in 1960 that Pinehurst No. 2 was done freehand. "They didn't have a single blueprint," he said. "They did it all from their head." 

Ron Whitten, Donald Ross Wouldn’t Recognize these Greens, Golf Digest, June, 2005   

[Bret Lawrence]

Tony,


Thank you for answering the question about the green plans. 


Bret


Pinehurst was a resort course which always stayed green.  Perhaps verticutting and overseeding with rye required more aggressive topdressing practices than a course that may have stayed dormant throughout the winter? Does Mid-Pines overseed in the winter?

[Craig Disher]

Pinehurst was a resort course which always stayed green.  Perhaps verticutting and overseeding with rye required more aggressive topdressing practices than a course that may have stayed dormant throughout the winter? Does Mid-Pines overseed in the winter?

Sadly, yes.

[Ira Fishman]

Thanks to all for the information. The conversion from sand greens certainly fits how the interior contours ended up as they did.


The Tufts Archives is such a wonderful resource. It is a shame that the plans for many Ross courses are not in the archives. As a member at Hope Valley, I enjoy looking at the Ross drawings which cover all 18 holes.


Ira

[Tom_Doak]

There are no plans for No.2, as they built the greens in the field. As-builts? Haven't heard of any.

Sadly, this is all too typical.  My ears perked up at Royal Melbourne a few years ago when they told me they had detailed surveys of each green done by the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology every few years.  But, it turned out that the first survey was immediately AFTER the superintendent who followed Claude Crockford had rebuilt the greens and planted Penncross on them. 


For the record, though, the maps showed clearly that the greens were getting built up from topdressing and sand blasted from the bunkers, especially because Royal Melbourne does not aerify much, in order to prevent Poa Anna from getting into the greens.  Instead, they close each course once every few years, strip all of the turf one green at a time, remove all of the sand buildup, and put the turf back down!  You can do that when you have 36 holes, but they're the only club I know who does it that way.

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