Mmmmmmmm Camargo

[Sean_A]

Adding my Camargo thoughts to an older thread.

I had the pleasure to play a few rounds at Camargo earlier this year and the place is very special.  As a native Ohioan, the parkland style always feels like home to me.  Camargo is the best one I’ve seen other than Milwaukee CC. 

With all that praise out of the way, the Redan left me underwhelmed and I struggled to appreciate it.  I played in June when the course was medium-firm, but plenty playable and saw a pin in the front, middle and back of the green.  Every shot that was hit “properly” with any kind of draw collected to the back third of the green.  In the 15-20 shots I saw onto this hole, the only way to stop the ball in the front or middle part of the green was to hit a high cut. 

I’m wondering if this is a good green/hole if the “proper” shot leaves a 50+ foot putt for most pins?  No one deserves to have easy/accessible pins, but the ball seemed to collect to the back very consistently.  Or am I thinking too simply and a draw for the right handed player is not always the correct play on a Redan?  I (naively?) assumed it was, but it wasn't great to watch your ball move far away from front/middle pins.

Only an outstanding or lucky shot will stay on the front quarter of NB's Redan. This is one of the drawbacks of a blind tee shot...you can't really see where to land the ball for a well judged kick up. Thankfully, I rarely see the hole that far forward. The last time this was the case the tee shot was down wind. I think the greenkeeper's wife sat on his shirt that morning.

Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

I drove around the course with Tom Cecil in July to see the work that is being done. It is a great course now. It will only get better.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I drove around the course with Tom Cecil in July to see the work that is being done. It is a great course now. It will only get better.

Likewise, drove it in October. Crazy to hear how large the green sizes are there (even if they are a teensy bit padded according to Google Earth). Particularly since it dates back to 1925 or so, that Raynor built such large greens that long ago.

[Joe Zucker]

Thanks Tom.  I think that's a reasonable conclusion.  I got to the hole and hit the draw I expected to hit, then watched the ball go far beyond the pin and thought 'that's not what I wanted'. 


Regarding the big greens, they are massive.  I played with an accomplished golfer and he said the first 10 times he played Camargo he could never figure out why he never scored well.  Eventually he concluded that the greens were so big that when he took a conservative route and played to the fat side of the green, he was continually left with 40 foot putts.  Once he internalized that the greens were huge and he had to aim closer to the pin, he said scoring improved.

[JLahrman]

I'm sure I've probably already commented about the greens somewhere on this thread, but they are indeed very large and though they couldn't really be called undulating (with a few exceptions), they have a lot of tilt to them. Long putts tend to break more than they appear they're going to break. There should be a warning sticker like you get on your mirrors.

[Steve Kohler]

I played it this fall shortly before the course was shut down.  Some of the work was already underway and staking showed new mowing lines and other changes to come.  I am excited to see the finished product next year.


While the greens don't have crazy contour like some other architects employed, they have enough movement to really reward the bold (or lucky) shots at the pin and punish the offline shots.  A two putt from the wrong side of the green is quite an accomplishment.  The pin placements for daily play seem to tend towards the benign side in my experience, but it can be set up comically hard as well by pushing to the edges and corners (see US Am qualifier).


Regarding the Redan, my couple member friends have mentioned that a favored play to front pins is leaving the ball just short of the green to avoid a long putt.  I'm not convinced that's any more desirable, especially since you're bringing the bunker or a blind, side-hill shot onto the green even more into play.