Centreline hazard heaven - where is it?

[Scott Warren]

The number of centreline hazards at Huntercombe really excited me yesterday.

Looking back on the day, I count centreline hazards - either in the fairway or at the green - on 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15 and 16.

There may not be a course with more, but what other courses are a candy shop for those of us who love centreline hazards?

[Tom_Doak]

What counts as a centerline hazard?

Is a bunker on the inside of a dogleg, straight between tee and green, a centerline hazard?  Or is any bunker in the middle of the fairway, even if not on the beeline to the green, counted as a centerline bunker?

Is a cross bunker 100 yards off the tee a centerline hazard, or does the hazard have to be out in the landing area?

[Scott Warren]

I suppose any hazard that leaves you a reasonable choice to play either side of it.

If there were a bunker on the inside of a dogleg and tall rough next to it, I obviously wouldn't count it, but if playing "underneath it" were an option, I guess it would pass the test.

The sort of holes I am talking about are 4 @ Woking, 16 @ TOC, 9 @ North Berwick, 14 @ New Zealand, 16 @ Huntercombe.

A centreline hazard just a short distance off the tee that should nowadays be easily carried - like the one on 2 @ Swinley - would qualify in theory, though I find them less exciting, while something like the cross bunkers on 17 @ Deal shouldn't be in play either, but they seem to cause much more consternation. I like that - that a bunker 50m in front of you while you play a 120m shot should somehow affect the shot and your thinking.

I was actually looking at Pacific Dunes online today. The bunkering on #3 is a good example of what I love to see.

[Wade Whitehead]

Ballyhack has some fantastic centerline features (see #2).

Dunes (Seville) had a couple of good ones, as I recall, including on the finishing hole.

WW

[jonathan_becker]

I suppose any hazard that leaves you a reasonable choice to play either side of it.

Scott,

Does this qualify? It's not bunkering but it's centerline.

Muirfield Village #5 is a par 5 at 527 yards.  With about 200 or so yards left, the creek on the left comes in and splits the fw down the middle and eventually hugs the left side of the green. 

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:

And by the definition you gave, Huntercombe really has TEN holes with centerline hazards?  I would think that at some point, short of that, the idea would start to get repetitive.

[Which reminds me that at May River Club, Mr. Nicklaus came back in for his last construction visit and decided to insert bunkers such as you describe into six different fairways ... all of them right in the landing area, mostly just left of center.]

Centerline bunkers are hard to combine with scruffy edges, but Pacific Dunes does have something of the type at holes 2, 3, 6, 12, 15, and 18.  The last three are par fives where the centerline hazard comes into play on the second shot.

[Mark Pearce]

Scott:

And by the definition you gave, Huntercombe really has TEN holes with centerline hazards?  I would think that at some point, short of that, the idea would start to get repetitive.

[Which reminds me that at May River Club, Mr. Nicklaus came back in for his last construction visit and decided to insert bunkers such as you describe into six different fairways ... all of them right in the landing area, mostly just left of center.]

Centerline bunkers are hard to combine with scruffy edges, but Pacific Dunes does have something of the type at holes 2, 3, 6, 12, 15, and 18.  The last three are par fives where the centerline hazard comes into play on the second shot.

I'm not sure Huntercombe really has 10 but it has plenty.  You really have to see Huntercombe and Mike's idea of a day there in September is very attractive.  If your diary worked out it would make a great GCA day out.

[Bill_McBride]

Talking Stick North has some very good ones.  TSN is often cited as a top notch design on a very flat site, and I think the centerline hazards are a big part of the reason.

#4



#5



#12

[Jim Sweeney]

Bill- Agree on TS. Especially #12. What a great short 2 shotter.

Also agree with Tom D. 5 seem to be enough.

Tom: please discuss the crossing bunker on #12 at Camargo. It is of no significance for the scratch player, except that it perhaps provides some depth perception issues, though I've never found that much of a problem. Might be an issue for old men rolling the ball down (up!) the fairway or from the far left-forward tee.

[Adam Clayman]

[Which reminds me that at May River Club, Mr. Nicklaus came back in for his last construction visit and decided to insert bunkers such as you describe into six different fairways ... all of them right in the landing area, mostly just left of center.]

Similar to the 9th at Sebonac? If not, how are they different?

[Michael Taylor]

Royal Queensland would have to have about 4 or 5 Scott.

Pup

[Neil_Crafter]

The Old Course 

[Sean_A]

The Old Course 

Hmm, I was thinking the same thing and I bet Doak gives it a pass.  Is there any course on earth that gets more passes for its short comings than TOC?  Silly question, I know.

I think Lederach IS A GREAT STUDY OF CENTRE-LINE HAZARDS.  I would also mention New Zealand.

Ciao

[Mike Cirba]

Sean,

Lederach is certainly up there.

In my opinion, it's a vastly underrated course.

It has built-in shortcomings as it weaves through a housing development, but I think it's one of the 10 most radically creative designs of the past 30 years.

[David_Elvins]

Moonah Links has a lot of centreline hazards but I would suggest it is closer to centreline hell  than centreline heaven

[Sean_A]

Sean,

Lederach is certainly up there.

In my opinion, it's a vastly underrated course.

It has built-in shortcomings as it weaves through a housing development, but I think it's one of the 10 most radically creative designs of the past 30 years.

Mike

Its a pity about the houses, but if Lederach were in a remote spot with a tag line archie to its credit I think it would be talked about as top 100.  I have a lot of time for the course.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

Scott:

And by the definition you gave, Huntercombe really has TEN holes with centerline hazards?  I would think that at some point, short of that, the idea would start to get repetitive.

If I drop 1 and 15 which are one-shotters with a grassy hazard halfway to the hole as not really affecting play directly, the following holes have a centreline hazard of some type:

2 - Ridge running down middle of the fairway.
5 - Tree in the DZ, sand/grass bunker in lay-up area
6 - Grass bunker in DZ
10 - Bunker on greenfront
12 - Bunker in greenfront
16 - Grass bunker in the DZ.

You could also make an argument for the grass swales/saucers short of the green on 8 and 9 as centreline challenge and interest, though they aren't hazards in the general sense.

I think the reason it works is that the nature of the hazard changes - ridge, tree, grass bunker, sand bunker - as well as the location.

[Jay Flemma]

Lederach has a lot.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill- Agree on TS. Especially #12. What a great short 2 shotter.

Jim, I think what really makes that a nasty little par 4 is the OB that is suddenly directly behind the green when you bail right as I suspect most do.  I've played the hole twice and learned the hard way the second time that the OB is close and any slightly long iron shot can go out.   

I think it would be a better hole if the left fairway were a bit larger; I suspect not many play over there because the target is small and dangerous.  The hole is really a replica of #5 at Cuscowilla, another Coore and Crenshaw design, where the play from the huge right bail out fairway is very difficult because of the shaping of the green.

Here's Cuscowilla's fifth, from Ran's profile (http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/the-golf-club-at-cuscowilla-ga-usa, scroll down for discussion of the fifth) - you can see the sliver of fairway left that yields a simple pitch to the green, and some of the "Elysian Fields" right that yield a dangerous little approach that leads to many frustrating bogeys.

[Tim Gavrich]

Kinloch seems to have a bunch of centerline hazards, and they all look like they come in different angles and forms.

I like the use of centerline hazards at Shelter Harbor as well.