The stern greens at The CC of Scranton

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played Walter Travis’ The Country Club of Scranton for the first time this past week. I enjoyed the course but was mostly intrigued by the greens. Travis was one of history’s great putters and his courses placed a premium on putting. The greens are small, consequently, skillful chipping and pitching to these undulating greens become essential. The interior contours are unlike anything I’ve ever seen. Two putting from one pinnable location to another sometimes seems impossible unless you make a ten-footer. On 18 I hit my second shot fifteen feet to the right of the pin and had that ten-footer for my second putt. I’ve played some of his other designs but don’t remember greens any sterner.

[Jim Sherma]

Tommy - Scranton is one of my favorites. My favorite stretch is 7 through 10. What a great set of greens. The bunkering can be a little questionable in places - I'm especially thinking of the greenside bunkers on 13 as an example of stuff that just doesn't seem to fit. Definitely one of my favorite plays that I need to get back to sooner rather than later.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Is Jim the only that has played Scranton?
They did a major renovation there a few years ago. Bunker work and removed 3500 trees.

[John Blain]

Is Jim the only that has played Scranton?
They did a major renovation there a few years ago. Bunker work and removed 3500 trees.

I played CCS just once 4 years ago or so. I thought it was an outstanding course with maybe the fastest greens I have ever played including Oakmont. In fact, you could make an intelligent argument that the greens were maybe too fast given the contours.
They did a renovation several years ago with thousands of trees removed and a complete bunker renovation.
The bunker renovation was under the guidance of Tom Marzloff from Tom Fazio's firm. There has been some criticism from the purists that the bunkering looks like Fazio and not Travis.
Overall, a great and underrated course. If this course was in Philly it would likely be in the top 5, so I have been told.

[Joe Bausch]

Is Jim the only that has played Scranton?
They did a major renovation there a few years ago. Bunker work and removed 3500 trees.

I adore CCofS. That is no great surprise to those that know me. Now, not all love it like I do.

There is another long-time GCA member here that finally played it last year after my urging, and he summed up his day as follows:  "It is a nice members course!"

So that's why there is chocolate and vanilla ice cream.   

Photo album from a 2019 visit:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Scranton_2019/index.html

Photo album from a 2021 visit:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Scranton_2021/index.html

[Tommy Williamsen]

Joe, often a remark like, “It is a niece member’s course,” is a criticism, but it is a wonderful members course. Coincidentally, the club championship took place the day I played it so I could see the pins they used. The course tee to green is not overly difficult, but the shots into, around, and on the greens separate the wheat from the chaff.

[MCirba]

Scranton is superb.  Mini Oakmont.

[mike_malone]

Stern greens indeed but I thought the approaches were benign. I don’t know who made the remark Joe referenced but I agree.
If it were in Philly it would settle into the second tier along with most of the Flynns.

[Mark_Fine]

Does anyone know if the greens were rebuilt or are they still push-ups?  They clearly are the highlight of the golf course.  As has been stated there is a tremendous amount of internal contour with the surrounding mounding that is integrated into the edges. The course had lots of what I would call in your face bold and artistic bunkering (though it was very arbitrary in regard to the grassing scheme when I saw it ).  Some bunkers have thick fescue surrounds on the back supports while many others are closely mown.   Most feature high flashed sand to the top edge and it was maintained with the Austrailan method of firm compacted sand on the faces to drawn balls to the bottoms.  I saw numerous drainage issues when I was there and some of the mounding is a bit contrived/overdone in my opinion.  Also many of the approaches need attention due to years of heavy topdressing.  Would this be the course to send someone to see original Travis?  Not so sure. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

Mark, I specifically asked the super if these were still push-up greens and he indicated that they were. From what I could glean the greens still represent the greens that Travis built.

[Andrew Carr]

All greens are Travis Original but for the 4th, 5th & 11th.  If the club softened those 3 greens and left greens like 7, 10 & 18, I can only imagine how wild the greens they changed were before!

Mark, I specifically asked the super if these were still push-up greens and he indicated that they were. From what I could glean the greens still represent the greens that Travis built.

[Tom_Doak]

Is Jim the only that has played Scranton?
They did a major renovation there a few years ago. Bunker work and removed 3500 trees.

They did a renovation several years ago with thousands of trees removed and a complete bunker renovation.
The bunker renovation was under the guidance of Tom Marzloff from Tom Fazio's firm. There has been some criticism from the purists that the bunkering looks like Fazio and not Travis.

Their consultant justified the new bunker style on the idea that Travis would have been influenced by the Sandbelt courses, failing to note that he moved away from Australia 25-30 years before MacKenzie was there. 


I played the course a few years back, and enjoyed it.  I had expected that it would be right up my alley, but I actually didn't enjoy it as much as I'd expected.  The greens were cool, but there was too much of it even for my tastes!

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played the course a few years back, and enjoyed it.  I had expected that it would be right up my alley, but I actually didn't enjoy it as much as I'd expected.  The greens were cool, but there was too much of it even for my tastes!

I guess expectations make a difference. I wasn't expecting much and was pleasantly surprised. I would like a few plays, however, to learn where not to hit it.

[Sean_A]

Is Jim the only that has played Scranton?
They did a major renovation there a few years ago. Bunker work and removed 3500 trees.

They did a renovation several years ago with thousands of trees removed and a complete bunker renovation.
The bunker renovation was under the guidance of Tom Marzloff from Tom Fazio's firm. There has been some criticism from the purists that the bunkering looks like Fazio and not Travis.

Their consultant justified the new bunker style on the idea that Travis would have been influenced by the Sandbelt courses, failing to note that he moved away from Australia 25-30 years before MacKenzie was there. 


I played the course a few years back, and enjoyed it.  I had expected that it would be right up my alley, but I actually didn't enjoy it as much as I'd expected.  The greens were cool, but there was too much of it even for my tastes!

Thats saying something considering your membership at CD!

Ciao

[Andrew Carr]

When you say they were too much, is this a Sebonack-type situation where maybe the greens were kept too fast for how much slope is in the greens?

Is Jim the only that has played Scranton?
They did a major renovation there a few years ago. Bunker work and removed 3500 trees.

They did a renovation several years ago with thousands of trees removed and a complete bunker renovation.
The bunker renovation was under the guidance of Tom Marzloff from Tom Fazio's firm. There has been some criticism from the purists that the bunkering looks like Fazio and not Travis.

Their consultant justified the new bunker style on the idea that Travis would have been influenced by the Sandbelt courses, failing to note that he moved away from Australia 25-30 years before MacKenzie was there. 


I played the course a few years back, and enjoyed it.  I had expected that it would be right up my alley, but I actually didn't enjoy it as much as I'd expected.  The greens were cool, but there was too much of it even for my tastes!

[MCirba]

It should be noted that Walter Travis left Australia prior to playing golf and never returned after learning the game.

[John Blain]

When you say they were too much, is this a Sebonack-type situation where maybe the greens were kept too fast for how much slope is in the greens?

Is Jim the only that has played Scranton?
They did a major renovation there a few years ago. Bunker work and removed 3500 trees.

They did a renovation several years ago with thousands of trees removed and a complete bunker renovation.
The bunker renovation was under the guidance of Tom Marzloff from Tom Fazio's firm. There has been some criticism from the purists that the bunkering looks like Fazio and not Travis.

Their consultant justified the new bunker style on the idea that Travis would have been influenced by the Sandbelt courses, failing to note that he moved away from Australia 25-30 years before MacKenzie was there. 


I played the course a few years back, and enjoyed it.  I had expected that it would be right up my alley, but I actually didn't enjoy it as much as I'd expected.  The greens were cool, but there was too much of it even for my tastes!

Andrew-  That was sort of my take just playing the course once. I love the golf course and I love the green complexes but I thought the speed was just a bit over the top given the slopes. That is just my opinion and I am sure a lot of people would disagree which is fine. I wonder what Travis would think of the green speeds? I have to believe he would take a dim view but who knows...
Quick question: When I played there (2018) Greg Boring was the superintendent and GM. He had the course in fabulous condition. Has the new super picked where Greg left off?
I believe Greg took the job at Baltusrol. Good for him. I had a long talk with him during my round there and seemed like a great guy.

[Andrew Carr]

I didn't experience them at crazy speeds but was told that they get much faster than when I was there.

I was told that Aaron worked under Greg and has picked up where Greg left off.  Aaron is an extremely talented and passionate guy.  The course was in terrific shape when I was there and he spent some time discussing what they are working on.

[Joe Bausch]

I didn't experience them at crazy speeds but was told that they get much faster than when I was there.

I was told that Aaron worked under Greg and has picked up where Greg left off.  Aaron is an extremely talented and passionate guy.  The course was in terrific shape when I was there and he spent some time discussing what they are working on.

The young super at CCofS is fantastic.  The place has not missed a beat since Greg left, IMHO.

[Ian Andrew]

This was the goal at one point.

[Andrew Carr]

That is an incredible look and yet another example of how underrated Walter Travis is.


In seeing Garden City Country Club as my first Travis design, I didn't understand how an architect that elevated Garden City Golf Club could also be responsible for Garden City Country Club, but now I really want to see what Garden City Country Club looked like when it opened.  I also need to now see Cape Arundel Golf Club, Hollywood and Onondaga!  There are so many great courses to see!


I also am more than curious, having seen a few courses recently that Tom Marzoff has worked on, how he squares the historic design by historically renowned architects and his work.  Does he simply not think what was there before was relevant and deserves to be at minimum honored and improved upon?


Look at the work that Coore & Crenshaw did at Old Town Club; they didn't do a pure restoration.  They did tweak a few things like the 8th and 17th holes if memory serves correctly from Maxwell's original design but it was done in a way that appears to have been original.  Isn't that better than leaving one's mark?

This was the goal at one point.