Worst universally loved golf hole...

[Jim Sherma]

I would nominate Pebble’s 8th, 17th and 18th. All iconic but are any of them special, or even particularly good, golf holes separated from the location and history. A blind uphill lay-up leaving an admittedly visually spectacular shot to a green that was too small and sloped to hold much interest other than not going long and left. Secondly, a flat par 3 to a green that requires a drone or tv-tower viewpoint to look special. Lastly, a flat par 5 with ob on one side and water on the other. I will now duck and cover.

[jeffwarne]

I would nominate Pebble’s 8th, 17th and 18th. All iconic but are any of them special, or even particularly good, golf holes separated from the location and history. A blind uphill lay-up leaving an admittedly visually spectacular shot to a green that was too small and sloped to hold much interest other than not going long and left. Secondly, a flat par 3 to a green that requires a drone or tv-tower viewpoint to look special. Lastly, a flat par 5 with ob on one side and water on the other. I will now duck and cover.

well...nominating 18 at Pebble took the heat off me

[Wayne_Kozun]

I would add both 16 and 17 on Cabot Cliffs.  They are spectacularly beautiful holes, but are, IMO, bad holes.

[Rob Marshall]

I would nominate Pebble’s 8th, 17th and 18th. All iconic but are any of them special, or even particularly good, golf holes separated from the location and history. A blind uphill lay-up leaving an admittedly visually spectacular shot to a green that was too small and sloped to hold much interest other than not going long and left. Secondly, a flat par 3 to a green that requires a drone or tv-tower viewpoint to look special. Lastly, a flat par 5 with ob on one side and water on the other. I will now duck and cover.

I can see 17 a Pebble. Nothing special other than location.

[Tim Leahy]

I would nominate Pebble’s 8th, 17th and 18th. All iconic but are any of them special, or even particularly good, golf holes separated from the location and history. A blind uphill lay-up leaving an admittedly visually spectacular shot to a green that was too small and sloped to hold much interest other than not going long and left. Secondly, a flat par 3 to a green that requires a drone or tv-tower viewpoint to look special. Lastly, a flat par 5 with ob on one side and water on the other. I will now duck and cover.

You're either extremely nearsighted or nuts. All 3 are great holes BECAUSE of history as well as where they are located and their design. Hitting over the cliffs and ocean on 8 and 18 at PB make them spectacular holes. 18 was included as one of the greatest 18 holes game I played when I started playing golf. Watson's chip in and Nicklaus ONE IRON on 17 give it all the relevance it needs.

[Tim Leahy]

I don’t know if it’s universally loved, but I’ll nominate the 4th hole at Spyglass Hill. Although it’s beautiful and strategic the green may just be a tad too tough hold, even from the perfect angle. Get out of position off the tee and you’ve got a double waiting to happen.

Love that hole. Tee shot challenges you but if you hit a great drive you can play up the green opening. You hitting a wedge so the narrow green makes that shot precise. I was a 15 hdcp the last time I played it a few years ago but hit a wedge to 3ft and made the birdie.

[Tim Leahy]

Since I've been critical of some I will give you one.
The 10th at Riviera. Yes it is a great hole for the pros when the pin is short left and none of them can seem to drive the green but when the pin is back right it's darn near impossible to hold the green even for the pros and impossible for us mere mortals.

[Greg Smith]

The 17th at Pebble leaps to mind.  Most of the general public knows and loves this hole.  The views look spectacular ... on TV.  But from the tee it can look kind of underwhelming.  Take away its ocean setting and what do you have?


** A long par-3 where going at a left pin is not really an option, unless you have the skill set of hitting towering, soft-landing 2-irons accurately in an ocean wind (Jack did!).


** Some pretty but rather penal bunkering.


** Not a lot of exciting terrain other than the oceanside cliffs.


** A green that can leave you in some very strange putting situations, or even have you feeling like you actually need to PITCH from the green surface.


If the hole weren't an oceanside part of one of golf's most famous finishes, but instead was sitting in the woods at Myrtle Beach, what would you really think?

[Kyle Harris]

My initial reaction was like some here: TPC Sawgrass 17th

However, it's rather easy to find harsh criticism of the hole so I'm not sure that falls under the "universally loved" category. In fact, somewhat paradoxically, the hate is what makes it so great.

I haven't played Pebble Beach but the on TV/Photograph eye-test fits some of the nominees there.

For the holes that I've played? I nominate the erstwhile 4th at World Woods Pine Barrens. The hole is supposedly some esteemed case study in strategic golf. It's so strategic that the best shot from the back tee was 280 yards down the middle and then an uphill 220 shot into the middle of the green. Subtract necessary yardages as you move forward.


In fact, I've can't think of any situation where a golf should *want* to challenge the hazards to find a better position other than by simply aiming their dispersion pattern down the middle and letting variance take over. It only became strategic when you didn't execute - which is really true of any hole where you make the your journey to the putting green longer.

[Brett Meyer]

I would add both 16 and 17 on Cabot Cliffs.  They are spectacularly beautiful holes, but are, IMO, bad holes.

I definitely don't agree with this. They're both almost as great as they are spectacular.

16 gives you room to bailout to the left if you're nervous about hitting to that sliver of a peninsula. But it's not endless room and it's tough to get the next one close to the hole. To me, there's a good amount of balance in this hole and as you suggested, it's also overwhelmingly beautiful.

17 is not so much spectacularly beautiful to me as it is spectacularly terrifying. But very interesting. That uphill drive over the cliff and the bushes is definitely one of the scariest that I've played. But I saw first-hand (not from myself) that a good drive that hugs the cliff can bound down onto the green. The safe drive out to the left (still tough to do given the intimidation) leaves a very tough shot to any pin in the front half of the green. You either have to put an incredible amount of spin on the ball or play a perfect bank shot off the hill on the left. But the latter can work and that plus the unique, brilliant, and terrifying drive make this one of the most interesting and special holes that I've played.

[Cal Seifert]

18 at Harbour Town is a hole that is always on advertisements and PGA Tour coverage that I found overrated. It’s a completely different feeling hole than anything else on the course and I felt it lacked much strategy. Also, it’s location requires a golf cart ride back to the clubhouse.

[Brad Lawrence]

I would nominate Pebble’s 8th, 17th and 18th. All iconic but are any of them special, or even particularly good, golf holes separated from the location and history. A blind uphill lay-up leaving an admittedly visually spectacular shot to a green that was too small and sloped to hold much interest other than not going long and left. Secondly, a flat par 3 to a green that requires a drone or tv-tower viewpoint to look special. Lastly, a flat par 5 with ob on one side and water on the other. I will now duck and cover.

I don’t agree with 8 or 18, but definitely 17.  The best description I ever heard about that hole was, it’s something to do between 16 and 18.  My defense of 8 is, I have a fetish for blind shots and the hole is epic looking. 18 is the least attractive of all the ocean side holes, but I think there’s plenty of strategical design merit.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I would add both 16 and 17 on Cabot Cliffs.  They are spectacularly beautiful holes, but are, IMO, bad holes.

I definitely don't agree with this. They're both almost as great as they are spectacular.

16 gives you room to bailout to the left if you're nervous about hitting to that sliver of a peninsula. But it's not endless room and it's tough to get the next one close to the hole. To me, there's a good amount of balance in this hole and as you suggested, it's also overwhelmingly beautiful.

17 is not so much spectacularly beautiful to me as it is spectacularly terrifying. But very interesting. That uphill drive over the cliff and the bushes is definitely one of the scariest that I've played. But I saw first-hand (not from myself) that a good drive that hugs the cliff can bound down onto the green. The safe drive out to the left (still tough to do given the intimidation) leaves a very tough shot to any pin in the front half of the green. You either have to put an incredible amount of spin on the ball or play a perfect bank shot off the hill on the left. But the latter can work and that plus the unique, brilliant, and terrifying drive make this one of the most interesting and special holes that I've played.

I have played there about thirty times with golfers of varying abilities.  On 17 I would say that the success rate is about 25-50%, except from the forward tee where there is no carry over the cliff.  If you try to bail left it is even worse as you have a high probability of a lost ball as there is gunk on the left side and no stakes.  So, in theory, you are going back to hit three off tee.


On 16 it is almost impossible to hit onto the upper tier of the green and the flag is their 95% of the time due to sinkhole and turf issues with the lower tier.  Even if you bail and leave yourself short left of the green it can be impossible to putt onto the green and have it stay on the upper tier.  In the 16 rounds that I have posted in the last five years that are still online my average score is a 4.9.  I am a 12 cap.

[Jim O’Kane]

18 at Harbour Town is a hole that is always on advertisements and PGA Tour coverage that I found overrated. It’s a completely different feeling hole than anything else on the course and I felt it lacked much strategy. Also, it’s location requires a golf cart ride back to the clubhouse.

Agreed. Was underwhelmed when I stood on the back tee at 18. Compared to most other tee shots, it looked like you could land a plane in the fairway.

[Rob Marshall]

18 at Harbour Town is a hole that is always on advertisements and PGA Tour coverage that I found overrated. It’s a completely different feeling hole than anything else on the course and I felt it lacked much strategy. Also, it’s location requires a golf cart ride back to the clubhouse.

Agreed. Was underwhelmed when I stood on the back tee at 18. Compared to most other tee shots, it looked like you could land a plane in the fairway.

From one side of the fairway to the other.

[Brett Meyer]

I have played there about thirty times with golfers of varying abilities.  On 17 I would say that the success rate is about 25-50%, except from the forward tee where there is no carry over the cliff.  If you try to bail left it is even worse as you have a high probability of a lost ball as there is gunk on the left side and no stakes.  So, in theory, you are going back to hit three off tee.


On 16 it is almost impossible to hit onto the upper tier of the green and the flag is their 95% of the time due to sinkhole and turf issues with the lower tier.  Even if you bail and leave yourself short left of the green it can be impossible to putt onto the green and have it stay on the upper tier.  In the 16 rounds that I have posted in the last five years that are still online my average score is a 4.9.  I am a 12 cap.

No doubt that the drive from the back two sets of tees on 17 is difficult. But it's one that you should be able to pull off if you're a good golfer because the carry up the hill isn't that far. And the fairway gets very wide if you hit it >about 200 yards. If this is too much, then you just move up to the next tee box. I don't think that we should hold it against a hole that the back tees require a shot that only really good golfers should be able to pull off regularly, as long as it provides a decent place for everyone else to play from. And 17 does, albeit with an inevitable cost to the excitement of the shot.

But I will give you that they should clear out some of the junk on the left of the fairway short of 200 yards.

I don't think that your comments suggest a problem with the 16th hole. If you bailout left, you may not be able to two putt to a left pin, but you should be able to get your ball on the green and make a 4. That extra shot is the cost of the bailout. But if you go at the pin and mishit it, you might make a 7. I'm not surprised by the high scoring average because I'd assume that you aimed at the green several of those times and if you do that, you're gonna lose a few balls.

Now I've only played the course twice. But it was windy both times and these holes played directly into the wind both times. And all of the shots that members in my groups didn't completely screw up (i.e. duffed into the side of the cliff) ended up alright and they were able to finish the holes. So they're both very difficult but provided that you play an appropriate set of tees, I thought that they still left enough room to play. That plus having a lot of merits for good players and being spectacular makes them both great holes to me.

[Jon Sweet]

It takes a lot to be universally loved and uniquely terrible. I think that it is impossible to be universally anything. That would require an entirety to have the same opinion.

A hole like Postage Stamp might fit the ask. Perhaps the short par three from the composite The Country Club at this year's US Open.

A hole like 16 at Sleepy Hollow would not.

If the hole falls apart (and becomes unplayable) under windy conditions, does that matter?

Saw the short 3 in person.  Those guys proximity to hole from that distance if I recall is sub 15 or 20FT.  If you cannot hit a green with a flip wedge in your hand, what are we doing?  I think the short holes should be extremely penal if you miss. 

[Jon Sweet]

My wife would tell you The Pit at NB. The fence messed with her mind both rounds even though she hit good pitches. She is not too keen on Yale 9 either.

Loved the experience at Yale and that hole is fantastic to me.  We played it at 235 back into a back left pin.  Tons of fun.  Really look forward to the changes and getting back out there. 

[Tal Oz]

I don't know that it's the 'worst' but I think this will spark some conversation for sure.

I present to you the 9th at Cypress Point.

My case revolves almost entirely around the current green speeds and the green complex. Collectively in 2 rounds with all single digit handicaps I've seen someone de-green themselves well over 10x. The biggest offender greens include 5, 7, 9, and 18. 7 is almost unpinnable and 9 is well on it's way there too.

To a top shelf left pin on 9, your approach is blind and the landing area is minuscule. If you go too far left into rough, good luck stopping a chip of any sort on the top level. Too far long and you're toast. Or if you go for the flag it's likely going to eventually release down to the lower level. From there I've seen more than 1 ball end up off the green and back down in the fairway. I've yet to play to a lower pin, but I remember spending an extra few minutes putting up from lower level to the upper and was amazed and how many balls would eventually funnel back down to my feet or the fairway. That's not to say it's impossible, in fact my first go around my caddie aimed me well left of the flag and my wedge shot left me 4' from the pin. The next time I did the same thing only to eventually see my ball release down to the front edge some 30 seconds after I hit my shot. It all felt very much on the margins of playability.

I also think the drive is one dimensional, keep it on short grass or face an even more exacting approach. If you're particularly long I suppose you could go for it, good luck stopping the ball with driver on that green!

If they were to keep green speeds more manageable I think a lot of my qualms would subside.

[Scott McWethy]

Loved by who is the real question...

If that means loved by the masses outside of GCA, I'm going to go with Torrey Pines 18

Couldn't agree more.  What  horrible golf hole.  Only exists for the drama on the 18th hole of a PGA tournament.

[Ryan Van Culin]

I agree that the 8th at PB is no good except on Tiger Woods PGA Tour.


The 17th seems like it would be better if it were shorter. Seems pretty bland to me overall. The fact that 2 players hit 2 good shots there makes zero difference to me.

[Tim_Weiman]

I would nominate Pebble’s 8th, 17th and 18th. All iconic but are any of them special, or even particularly good, golf holes separated from the location and history. A blind uphill lay-up leaving an admittedly visually spectacular shot to a green that was too small and sloped to hold much interest other than not going long and left. Secondly, a flat par 3 to a green that requires a drone or tv-tower viewpoint to look special. Lastly, a flat par 5 with ob on one side and water on the other. I will now duck and cover.

I don’t agree with 8 or 18, but definitely 17.  The best description I ever heard about that hole was, it’s something to do between 16 and 18.  My defense of 8 is, I have a fetish for blind shots and the hole is epic looking. 18 is the least attractive of all the ocean side holes, but I think there’s plenty of strategical design merit.

Brad,


I don’t agree on Pebble’s 8th either. The tee shot never bothered me. The blindness made it kind of fun. But, what hasn’t been mentioned is the wind and how it can complicate both club selection and target for the approach shot, especially if there is a fairly strong breeze left to right. Such a wind can doom a shot hit with any cut (for a right hand player).


I’ve played the hole about five times and always enjoyed thinking through how to play the second shot.

[Steve Salmen]

#1 at NGLA


Too early in the round to tempt most good players, especially given that very few use the range (perhaps that has changed)
Very tough green for amateurs to hit, hold or putt, so it basically is a potentially great hole that pleases few...

I played it yesterday in fairly benign conditions.  Flag was center front, probably the easiest location with some flat green around the hole.  What I do appreciate about the hole is that it's quite easy to get to the green in regulation, but once you get there, it can be very difficult to get the ball in the hole if you're on the wrong side of the swales or tiers.  The other two times I played it I wrong sided myself and 3 putted without shame.

[Tim Martin]

#1 at NGLA


Too early in the round to tempt most good players, especially given that very few use the range (perhaps that has changed)
Very tough green for amateurs to hit, hold or putt, so it basically is a potentially great hole that pleases few...

I played it yesterday in fairly benign conditions.  Flag was center front, probably the easiest location with some flat green around the hole.  What I do appreciate about the hole is that it's quite easy to get to the green in regulation, but once you get there, it can be very difficult to get the ball in the hole if you're on the wrong side of the swales or tiers.  The other two times I played it I wrong sided myself and 3 putted without shame.

It’s a terrific hole and I wouldn’t consider a three putt worthy of a scarlet letter. Par is often defended at and around the green on short holes.