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David Bowen

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Re: Mark Twain GC - Ross - Why didn't he mail this one in?
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2022, 11:07:34 PM »
Although it is nice that the local courses around the one the post is about are referenced for travelers, when it comes to Soaring Eagles, Hiawatha, Victor Hills, Ravenwood, Binghamton, Parkview Fairways, Elmira CC, etc. (surprised no one mentioned Watkins Glen, a sporty little 9 holer, or Trumansburg), in my view, Mark Twain is better than all of those mentioned.  Great greens, great topography.  One of the draw backs I suppose is that almost every hole plays up hill or down hill.  2 and 12 are about the only holes that tend to be somewhat level.  Yet, most holes allow a strategic distance or angle advantage if struck into the proper spot off the tee.   Haven't been there in a while.  I cannot attest to conditioning presently, but when they are running well, the greens are very exacting for a public facility.  Every green has exciting contours.  The elevated tee shots and approaches to most of the greens inspire bold and aggressive play.  It is a course that allows for and begs you to have fun.  What more can be asked of a course? 


As for the historical aspects and whether Ross mailed or not, I cannot say.  Yet it a course with undeniable Ross character, almost text book in the manner in which the terrain was used for tee and green sites.  A WPA project that Elmira was very lucky to receive.  Could be the best Ross bargain remaining in America and that is a great thing. 

John Blain

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mark Twain GC - Ross - Why didn't he mail this one in?
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2022, 10:27:49 AM »

I would play Ravenwood over Victor Hills.


They are two very different courses. I played Victor Hills North for the first time a couple days ago. Ravenwood is a big, wide open, modern CCFAD type of course that's 7,100 yards from the back tees ($57 to walk, $67 to ride),  while VHN is is a tree lined, old school, mom & mom parkland course, 6500 from the back tees with a few quirky holes (quirky in a good way). You can spray your drives at Ravenwood without losing a ball and each hole is "right in front of you". At VHN you'll want to walk ahead on a few holes to scope out what is being asked of your next shot.


VHN has a lot of elevation change, some subtle, some steep, and has five or six holes that require straight tee shots through chutes.  Besides those few tight tee shots, the main weakness of VHN is that the greens are mostly pretty plain, although in good condition. I'd probably suggest Ravenwood to most people as well, but Victor Hills is a fun round and a great value at $29 to walk and $41 to ride ($23 /$33 for seniors).


Here are links to photos of the two courses.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72177720301569490  Victor Hills Pix


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157655118456464 Ravenwood Pix
What is a CCFAD type of course?  What do those letters stand for?

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mark Twain GC - Ross - Why didn't he mail this one in?
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2022, 02:26:24 PM »

I would play Ravenwood over Victor Hills.


They are two very different courses. I played Victor Hills North for the first time a couple days ago. Ravenwood is a big, wide open, modern CCFAD type of course that's 7,100 yards from the back tees ($57 to walk, $67 to ride),  while VHN is is a tree lined, old school, mom & mom parkland course, 6500 from the back tees with a few quirky holes (quirky in a good way). You can spray your drives at Ravenwood without losing a ball and each hole is "right in front of you". At VHN you'll want to walk ahead on a few holes to scope out what is being asked of your next shot.


VHN has a lot of elevation change, some subtle, some steep, and has five or six holes that require straight tee shots through chutes.  Besides those few tight tee shots, the main weakness of VHN is that the greens are mostly pretty plain, although in good condition. I'd probably suggest Ravenwood to most people as well, but Victor Hills is a fun round and a great value at $29 to walk and $41 to ride ($23 /$33 for seniors).


Here are links to photos of the two courses.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72177720301569490  Victor Hills Pix


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157655118456464 Ravenwood Pix
What is a CCFAD type of course?  What do those letters stand for?


Country Club for A Day

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mark Twain GC - Ross - Why didn't he mail this one in?
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2022, 09:36:47 PM »
John Blain,

The CCFAD started in the mid-Atlantic, in the mid 1990s. Washington Golf Monthly popularized the term. High-end, public courses opened on pretense. They were posh for you, but only for about 6 or 7 hours. You were greeted at the club drop (what muni had a club drop, ever?) by a well-appointed attendant, who would gladly lighten your wallet, in exchange for grabbing clubs from trunk and belting them onto a cart. Said attendant would also be around at the end, to clean your clubs with a moist towlette, and further lighten your wallet.

The course would have as much cart path as fairway, and would have at least two SIGNATURE HOLES that were unlike any conceived prior. They might feature trees sticking out of the middle of greens, fairways, or tees; waterfalls or creeks with brick walls...you get the idea. They were usually unpalatable and unplayable.

Thank Jesus for the crash of 2008, and the rise of the minimalists (not a Star Wars parallel universe.) 2K08 ended the CCFAD fad (irony!) and gave us Trump Clubs ... oh, wait.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

John Blain

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mark Twain GC - Ross - Why didn't he mail this one in?
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2022, 08:31:31 AM »
John Blain,

The CCFAD started in the mid-Atlantic, in the mid 1990s. Washington Golf Monthly popularized the term. High-end, public courses opened on pretense. They were posh for you, but only for about 6 or 7 hours. You were greeted at the club drop (what muni had a club drop, ever?) by a well-appointed attendant, who would gladly lighten your wallet, in exchange for grabbing clubs from trunk and belting them onto a cart. Said attendant would also be around at the end, to clean your clubs with a moist towlette, and further lighten your wallet.

The course would have as much cart path as fairway, and would have at least two SIGNATURE HOLES that were unlike any conceived prior. They might feature trees sticking out of the middle of greens, fairways, or tees; waterfalls or creeks with brick walls...you get the idea. They were usually unpalatable and unplayable.

Thank Jesus for the crash of 2008, and the rise of the minimalists (not a Star Wars parallel universe.) 2K08 ended the CCFAD fad (irony!) and gave us Trump Clubs ... oh, wait.
Thanks for that, Ron!  I now understand and actually have heard the expression "Country club for a day." I just didn't connect the letters CCFAD with that saying!  I have to say I would never put Ravenwood GC in that category. It is - in my opinion - a very solid public course with an understated feel to it. Lots of good holes, easy to walk, etc. It's a great option if you cannot get on one of the many outstanding private club courses in Rochester.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mark Twain GC - Ross - Why didn't he mail this one in?
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2022, 11:28:46 AM »
Ravenwood is the outlier in the list offered earlier. I think that it is a better course than Mark Twain.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!